EACH FRAME TELLS A STORY: AN INTERVIEW WITH CINEMATOGRAPHER STEVE LAWES
by Mary Jo Watts (mid0nz)
一个镜头，一个故事：与摄影指导 STEVE LAWES 细谈SHERLOCK
—— MARY JO WATTS
[TRANSLATED BY: ADRIENNE KENT AND THE SCIENCE OF ARTICULATION]
I’m hopelessly, obsessively besotted with BBC Sherlock. It’s impossible for me to temper my enthusiasm for Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss’s modern adaptation. At 43 years old, I’m proud to call myself an unabashed fangirl of the show and to count myself among the millions of others who comprise its global fandom.
我承认我是 BBC SHERLOCK 的超忠实狂热的粉丝。我完全无法控制自己对STEVEN MOFFAT 和 MARK GATISS改编的这部现代化作品的热情。43岁的我可以毫不演示的自称为这部作品的粉丝。我为自己是全世界其他成千上万个粉丝中的一员而自豪。
It was when I watched the credits roll on The Great Game, season one’s gripping cliffhanger, that I realized I’d become utterly immersed in the Sherlock universe because of its stunning visuals. Part of the plot of that episode has to do with a Vermeer painting and it delighted me that a pivotal scene had been lit in homage to the Dutch master.
在我看到THE GREAT GAME的演职员表的时候，也就是第一季的悬念结尾之处，才意识到我会如此沉浸在SHERLOCK 的世界的一大原因，要归功于它所呈现的漂亮画面。那一集中有一部分内容围绕着一幅弗米尔（VERMEER）的画作。在这么重要的一幕中，灯光取景都是对这位荷兰大师表示敬意，这让我感到非常开心。
Those credits revealed to me that it was cinematographer Steve Lawes who transmuted a stark television set in Cardiff into 221B Baker Street, London. No, not into the domicile of Arthur Conan Doyle’s Literary Legend, Mr. Sherlock Holmes, but into a real flat where Benedict Cumberbatch’s contemporary Sherlock most often lives. It’s a cozy wreck of a place. There are two giant windows in the living room that let in lots of light, and a bustling street below. Lawes’s 221B is as real to me as any other place I’ve happily spent hours of my time.
在演职员表中我了解到，负责把卡迪夫（CARDIFF）的拍摄场景改造成伦敦的 221B BAKER STREET的是摄影指导 STEVE LAWES。这不是柯南·道尔 （ARTHUR CONAN DOYLE）笔下所描述的 SHERLOCK 的住所，而是21世纪由 BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH 主演的现代SHERLOCK HOLMES所常居的真实公寓 。房间乱中有序、舒适亲切。客厅有两扇大窗方便采光，楼下街道人来人往。LAWES 镜头里的221B，对我来说，是一个如其他让我流连忘返的地方一样真实。
I’ve an academic background in media studies and film theory. I’ve blogged about Sherlock now for the better part of two years: the soundtrack, set dressings, props and plots. But it’s the look of the show I keep returning to – its grammar, framing and light. There are nine film-length episodes of Sherlock comprising three seasons. Lawes shot five of them: all of season one, and the first two episodes of season three.
我有媒体研究和电影研究的学术背景。这两年来，我写了不少有关 SHERLOCK 的博文，其中探讨了SHERLOCK 的配乐、布景、道具和故事发展等各个方面。但让我一二再再而三地去分析这戏剧的，是画面的构造、视觉的意向以及光与暗的协调。三季的SHERLOCK共九集，每一集都有电影的长度。LAWES 负责了其中五集：第一季的全部，和第二季的前两集。
In preparation for this interview I happily set out to see as much of Steve Lawes’s other work as I could in all its diversity. Over the 2013 holidays three of Lawes’s recent projects broadcast: his two episodes of Sherlock, his first big costume drama, Death Comes to Pemberley, and The Tractate Middoth, a little gem of a ghost story by M.R. James which was adapted, directed and co-produced by Mark Gatiss. Fantastic, fantastic stuff.
为了这次的访谈，我很开心地尽我所能观赏了许多 LAWES 参与的其他作品。2013假期中，有LAWES 掌镜的四部片子上映：两集SHERLOCK，他的第一部古装剧 DEATH COMES TO PEMBERLEY，以及与MARK GATISS合作的一部鬼片， THE TRACTATE MIDDOTH。都是非常非常精彩的片子。
I’m not a professional writer or interviewer. As I said, I’m a fan with a blog. Steve Lawes is a freelance cinematographer. The opinions he expresses below are his and do not reflect those of the BBC or Hartswood Films. Our conversation took place on 30 January, 2014. -MJW
再次声明，我并不是职业作家或职业记者。我只是一个博客粉丝。STEVE LAWES是自由电影摄影师。以下都是 LAWES 本身的观点言论，并不代表 BBC 或 HARTWOOD FILMS 的观点。
访谈于2014年1月 30日。- MJW
Mary Jo Watts: How did you become a DP [Director of Photography]?
MARY JO WATTS （MJW）：你是如何成为摄影指导的？
Steve Lawes: When I went to high school I did photography with art. I always wanted to get into photography. I did a lot of photography when I was a kid. I started off with an Instamatic and then grew into Polaroids and 35mm. It was always something that fascinated me. I like the combination of the technical-ness of photography and the artistic side of photography. So I was destined to want to be a photographer.
STEVE LAWES （SL）：高中时期，我艺术课选了摄影。我一直都希望成为摄影师，从小就到处拍摄。刚开始的时候，我用的是 INSTAMATIC 相机，然后学会用 POLAROID 和 35MM 胶片相机。摄影非常令人着迷。我喜欢摄影这种技术和艺术的有机结合。只能说，我生下来就是干这一行。
I ended up taking a gap year. I went to a summer camp in the States when I was 18 and it changed my outlook on life a little bit. It was a big experience that I hadn’t had before.
SL: It was in Pennsylvania, a place called Trail’s End which was an affluent camp for very rich Jewish American kids. I made a friend from New York and a friend from the New Orleans area. I travelled all the way around on a Greyhound bus. I bought one of those tickets that meant you could go around everywhere. It opened my eyes. I was only 18 and it was a very weird experience being away from home for the first time traveling around on a bus seeing the America you’ve seen so much in films and that kind of thing. I think it changed me. It made me want to search for something else, something more.
SL：在宾夕法尼亚州，一个叫 TRAIL’S END 的地方。去这个夏日营的都是非常富有的美国犹太裔孩子。我结识了一个来自纽约的朋友，和一个来自新奥尔良的朋友。我坐着灰狗到处跑遍美国，一张车票可以随意上下车的那种。那真的拓宽了我的眼界。我只有18岁，第一次在离家那么远的地方，单独乘坐客车到处走，亲身体会电影电视里呈现的美国，是一种挺奇怪的经验。我觉得这经历改变了我许多，它让我想要寻找更多、更有意义的东西。
When I came back I started enquiring about what courses did moving image. I wanted to get a bit more into that. So I ended up going to Manchester where I did film school for three years. It was a generalized film school. It wasn’t like the big film schools in the UK or LA. It was a university course that catered for lots of different things. So if you wanted to be a director or a cameraman, whatever, they catered for all of it. You got to do a bit of everything. I produced. I directed. I edited. I did everything. The one thing I always wanted to do was shoot so we shot on 16mm film, we shot on HD, well it wasn’t HD video it was high band video at the time and I used to shoot a lot on Super 8. I just used to play around and do stuff. I then left college.
回国后，我就开始询问有关拍摄电影的课程。我想往这个方向发展发展。所以最后我选择到曼彻斯特的电影学院学习了3年。那是个很综合性的电影学院，不像英国或洛杉矶那几间知名的电影学院，而是一个提供了众多东西的大学课程。你是想要学当导演还是摄影师，他们都能提供有关科系和尝试机会。你什么都会学到一些。我担任过负责人、导演、剪接，什么都做了。我一直最想做的是摄影，所以我们拍了16MM 胶片，拍了HD 录影 — 不对，那时不是 HD，是高带域磁带。我也常用 SUPER 8。那段时间就只是拿着录像机，什么都拍，像在玩耍一样。然后就毕业了。
When I graduated from college it was that kind of situation where you wonder if you’re going to get a job. It’s a difficult industry to crack. I was unemployed for the best part of four months. Like every graduate does. They look through all the newspapers and all the periodicals for all the jobs. I was so desperate to get some work.
I got offered a job at QVC. The shopping channel was coming to the UK and they were looking for a camera technician to basically run the studio in London. I really hadn’t had a sniff of anything yet so I thought why don’t I go and do this? So I go to the interview. I get the job. I turn up for the first day and I have an orientation. And this fear comes over me. I get to the lunch time. And I make this decision. I say “right I’m going to leave at the end of the day. I’m not going to do this. Because if I do this it’s going to lead on to other things and then I’m not going to get to where I want to get to.”
I quit after one day. My parents, everyone around me kind of thought I was an idiot because I was in debt from college and I needed to work. But I just had this belief that something else would come up and that wasn’t what I wanted to do and life wasn’t about doing things you don’t want to do. So I carried on being unemployed for some time.
A very good friend of mine from college, not my university but she went to another university, a friend of mine from school, Annabelle, knew a guy called Olly Tellett who is a focus puller. She said I should speak to him about getting a job as a trainee. We’re both from the same town in the UK called Winchester. We happened to bump into each other in a pub and just got chatting and he said he was doing a film down in Wales and wanted to know if I wanted to come down and be a trainee. It was no money. No accommodation. Nothing at all. It was twelve weeks’ work — literally turn up, possibly sleep on somebody’s floor, did I want to do it? I said “Sure, I’ll give it a go.” So I went and did that job. Basically I was a trainee on that job. Very quickly they offered me the next job. They wanted me to be a clapper loader on the next show which is the 2nd AC [assistant camera]. I worked with Olly for the best part of ten years.
之后，我在学校认识的一个好友 ANNABELLE — 不是我读的那所大学，另外一所 — 认识了一个叫 OLLY TELLET的摄影助理。ANNABELLE 叫我找 OLLY 谈谈，问看能不能当他的实习生。我们都是温彻斯特镇来的。有一次，我们在酒馆内碰面，就开始闲聊。OLLY说他在威尔士有一份工作，问我要不要过去当个实习生。没有工钱，没有住宿。什么都没有。十二个星期的工作，可能要睡在别人的地板上，问我来不来？我就说，好，我试试看，也就接了。那份工作我基本就是个实习生。之后很快他们就问我要不要当下一部戏的第二摄影助理。我就这样跟 OLLY 跟了将近十年。
We did about two years scratching around. Fringe stuff, little bits and pieces, low budget films and then we ended up working with a guy called Daf Hobson, a very accredited cinematographer from the UK. That entailed lots of TV drama. So we got to work with him for about ten years. Olly started getting other jobs, still as a focus puller, so I took over as focus puller from Olly, still working with Daf. Olly is now probably one of the best focus pullers in the country. He was A camera on Gravity. His CV is in terms of feature films… any major studio picture that comes into the country he gets to do. We’re still very good friends. He went off in that direction and I carried on working with Daf for a number of years.
头两年我们就只拍摄一些低成本的片子，算是混口饭吃。然后我们有幸和一个叫 DAF HOBSON 的英国电影摄影指导合作，他是一个很受认可的专业人才。跟着他的十年内，拍了好多部电视剧。OLLY 开始接其他摄影助理的工作 — 我也就接手，成了 DAF的摄影助理。OLLY 现在算是全国首屈一指的摄影助理，譬如在《地心引力》（GRAVITY）里，他负责 A CAMERA。他的简历包括了各种大片 — 来到这国家的任何大制作，他都有机会参与。我们还是很好的朋友。他往摄影助理那方面发展，我则继续和 DAF 合作多年。
We got into a situation where I started operating and I started shooting second unit for Daf and we were working on a job one day — it was a thing called The Street by Jimmy McGovern and he was supposed to do the first block and the third block. Quite often what happens like Sherlock is when you get three episodes or you might get six episodes but you shoot in blocks so you shoot episode one and two in six weeks. Another director, another DP would shoot three and four in six weeks and then you’d come back and quite often the lead director and DP combo do first and third. Sometimes you do the whole thing if it’s something like Sherlock.
接着和 DAF 合作时，我就会负责第二小组的摄影。有一天，我们在跟 JIMMY MCGOVERN 拍一部叫 THE STREET 的节目。DAF 负责第一段和第三段。通常我们拍戏 — 例如 SHERLOCK — 的时候，观众一次性看到的是三集或六集，我们拍摄则是一段一段。可能六个礼拜内拍第一、第二集，算是一段。然后另外一个导演和摄影指导负责第三第四集，那是第二段。再后来导演和摄影指导又再拍另一段。有时拍像 SHERLOCK 这样的剧时，同班人马会负责把整个都拍完。
So we shot the first block and I operated on it and I’d shot a couple of days on it and he said to me at the end “I’m not going back. I don’t want to do it anymore. So I’ll have a bit of a sabbatical and I’m going to suggest that you do it.” I was like, ‘They’re never going to employ me! You know, all I’ve got is a background in the camera department and I haven’t got a background as a cinematographer.’ So I say great, if it works, fine. We’ll see what happens.
这一次，我和 DAF 拍了第一段之后 — 大概两天吧 — DAF 就告诉我：“我不回去了。我不要做了。我准备休假，并且建议由你接手。” 我说：“他们才不会要我呢！我只有摄影的经验，没有摄影指导的经验。“之后我就说，行吧，如果能行得通，那也挺好。我们走着看。
I went to New York to see my friend that I met in camp with my wife and I got a call about four o’clock in the morning from the producer saying “we want to offer you the job.” This was 2006. I remember basically jumping up and down in my pants thinking this is it. This is my opportunity. This is a prime time BBC main drama, the drama that went on to win the BAFTA and the RTS two years in a row. It’s been one of the most acclaimed series other than Sherlock that’s been on our screens. I remember jumping up and down with excitement and then all of a sudden this fear gripped me. And I thought what the hell? How am I going to do this? I’m not ready for this. Like in every situation in life where you can get anxiety and you think something has come along and you think you can’t do it.
我和妻子跑到纽约去见一个夏令营认识的朋友。早上大概四点的时候，我就接到制作人的电话说：“我们想把这份工作交给你。”那是 2006 年。我记得兴奋得穿着内裤就乱蹦乱跳，想说太棒了，这就是我的机会。这是 BBC 的黄金时段，是一个之后连续两年赢得 BAFTA 和 RTS 大奖的剧集。除了 SHERLOCK 以外，我们的屏幕上就属这部戏广受好评了。我记得那时正兴奋的时候，突然一下子感到非常恐惧。天啊，我该如何开始？我还没准备好。就是那种人生中你觉得好机会来了自己却为把握不住而焦虑的感觉。
We get back home. I speak to Daf and I say “Look, I’m a little bit nervous about blah, blah, blah” and he was like “It’s all in there. You’ve been working as an assistant for fifteen years. You’ve been on all these different film sets. You know what happens. You’ve got to put that into place.”
He was a great mentor. He was the kind of guy that you’d work with that would always tell you why he did something. He was my teacher. Everything you see that I do now, a lot of that comes from him. It’s not so much the style and the technical side of it but it’s the approach. It’s the way that you approach cinematography.
I did The Street. I don’t think I’ve ever thrown myself at something with so much energy and so much wanting to succeed. It felt like six weeks of just running and then I got to the end of it and it was like we’ve done it. And everybody was very happy with it. So the director, David Blair, offered me another job after that. And then it snowballed into where we are now with different directors, different companies, different work. Choosing different jobs for different reasons.
我接下了 THE STREET。我从来没有为什么事花那么多的精力，那么想要成功。这感觉就像六个星期不停的奔跑，到了它结束时，我们感到自己圆满完成了。每个人都非常高兴。导演 DAVID BLAIR 之后给我另一份工作。然后如滚雪球一般，我们现在跟不同的导演、不同的公司做着不同的工作。因为各种各样的理由选择去拍各种各样的片子。
Most of the jobs that I do now are down to the director than anything else. But there are still things like Sherlock. In the first series I was invited to an interview to meet [director] Paul McGuigan. I didn’t know it was going to be what it was going to be. I literally met him in a restaurant in Cardiff. We talked for two hours about lots of different things, about what we liked and what we didn’t like and then they offered me the job.
我现在接工作会先考虑到谁是导演。但还有像 SHERLOCK 这样的片子。在第一季筹备的时候，我被邀请去与导演 PAUL MCGUIGAN面谈。我那时不知道这是面试。我们在卡迪夫的餐厅碰面，两个小时内谈了很多不同的东西，譬如我们喜欢什么、不喜欢什么，然后他们给了我这份工作。
This is quite interesting. Interviews are always… you’re either asked to the interview because the director likes your work or you’re asked to an interview because the producer likes your work. It’s very rarely because an agent gets you the interview. It’s usually because somebody has seen your work or they’ve seen your show, rather, and they like it or they’ve seen Sherlock and they like it.
这是相当有趣的。面试总是…你被邀请面试，要么是因为导演喜欢你的工作，又或因为制片人喜欢你的工作。经纪人邀请你面试是非常罕见的。通常是因为有人已经看到了你的工作或者他们已经看到他们喜欢的片子，或者他们已经看到了 SHERLOCK 并喜欢它。
What I find about interviews is that you end up interviewing them as much as they interview you because you’re going to spend the next three months of your life working with this person at an incredibly intense level. It’s very difficult to walk away from that relationship if it’s dysfunctional. It’s about like two dogs meeting to begin with. You’re kind of looking at each other, sniffing each other, trying to work each other out and you end up making a decision on that very short piece of time that you have. Quite often with me it’s about trust and also… You know sometimes you get it wrong. You sit in an interview with somebody and this guy sounds amazing and you’ll turn up on day one and they’re like… But everybody’s different.
One of the things I’ve learned over the years is that good and bad is a bad distinction. People are different. Things are different. Creatively there isn’t good and bad, in my opinion. I think there’s just difference of opinion. What works for somebody doesn’t necessarily work for somebody else. And that’s not a bad thing. I think the fact that people like and dislike things strongly is a good thing.
MJW: What does a DP do? For example on Sherlock’s first episode of season three, The Empty Hearse, what did you have to do for that?
MJW：摄影指导的工作包含了什么？譬如说，SHERLOCK 第三季第一集 THE EMPTY HEARSE 里，你负责什么？
SL: Starting off in terms of pre-production. Once you’re on board you’re working with the director, the producers, the writers and the production designer, predominantly. Costume designer, makeup designers. What you’re doing in pre-production is you’re looking at the script and you’re going “Right. How do we realize this? How do we make this work?” So quite often you’ll do a read-through of the script and you’ll say “How are we going to do this? What part of this can be done pseudo? What part of this can be done real?”
You then with the location manager start looking at locations that will possibly work. You say why they will work, why they won’t work. Are they expensive in terms of camera and lights and electrical— and all that sort of thing. It’s a real process that’s driven by many things. It’s driven by creative choice, it’s driven by finances— always driven by finances because you can walk into some room and say “oh this is great” but it’s going to cost £50,000 to light and the producer will just turn around and go “No way.” So what you do is you walk in there and say “This is great but it’s going to kill us if we light it. Maybe if we just use that bit of it we can make it work that way.”
So in pre-production you’re talking about the scripts and it’s all about how you realize that and get it on to screen. You’re having a conversation with the director in terms of what he wants to do, how he sees that scene, what’s his idea, how does he see it, does he want it to be Steadicam, does he want it to be on a crane, does he have this idea.
For example on the first series with Paul [McGuigan]. The studio sets are built all on the same level. So the main room is on one level. The stairs that come down from that room are on the same level, but next to it, then come down. Paul turned up and was really disappointed because the set was not built one on top of the other. They never are unless you’re David Fincher and you get them built like that. They never are because it’s more practical to have them at ground level. But he wanted to do a shot which went all the way down the stairs and out into the road. And he said “well how do we do this?” and I said “well we can do it with wipes.”
比如与 PAUL MCGUIGAN 拍的第一季。所有摄影棚都建在同一层平面上。所以主要的房间和楼梯间都在同一楼，楼梯就和房间并排着下来。PAUL 看了真的很失望，因为楼上的房间不真的在楼上。那是不可能的，除非你是 DAVID FINCHER，才能作出那种特别要求。为了拍摄方便，房间从来都是在同一层的。但他想要把下楼、出门拍成一个连贯性镜头。他问： “那我们如何做到这一点？” 我说： “我们可以巧妙的切换场景。”
You know what we do is we do it with Steadicam and wipes so when we get to the top of the stairs Benedict [Cumberbatch] walks into the camera and it goes black and then we carry on down [the next set of stairs and out 221B]. And in that shot there are four cuts to get onto the crane, the final one being when we come out on Baker Street [North Gower Street] and then we use John to cross the frame to create the wipe to get us onto the crane. When you see that you see one shot, well people would see the cut if they were aware of it but effectively it feels like one shot. That’s the kind of thing we do in prep. It’s realizing how to solve a problem of what you want to do creatively.
我们利用 STEADICAM 和切换技巧，当我们到达楼梯顶端就让 BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH 走进镜头，然后我们继续从另一个楼梯走出221B 。而单单在那一幕就有四次切换，最后一次是用吊车。我们用 JOHN 越过镜头，转用吊车来拍他走出贝克街 [北高尔街] 。在观众眼里看来是一个连续的镜头，当然有些会意识到我们的拍摄手法，但感觉上是连续的。这就是前期制作期间我们做的事，设法创造性的完成我们要做的事。
Then when we get closer to the shoot we go on what’s called tech recces where everybody involved in the production in terms of the heads of departments are on a bus and we get … around. We all walk out with our clipboards. Like with Barts’s roof, we’ll go on Barts’s roof and we’ll say “Right. Are we going to have a camera positioned, where’s that camera position going to be, and the logistics of putting that there. And we have all these discussions and then at the end of those recces I’ll do lists in terms of extra lighting, extra camera kit we need and I put those lists together and I put them into production.
Then we have a production meeting which generally lasts forever. They last up to eight hours. And in that production meeting we go through a schedule. And the first…. is based on what we’re going to shoot on what day. And everybody chimes in at that point to say what their problems are, what their issues are, how they solve those problems, if this is going to happen how do we deal with that, etc.
With Barts for instance even though we shoot there, you can’t lock it off. It’s still a public area. So when we film in London you can’t shut areas off completely because a) London won’t allow you to do that and b) just the practicality of shutting off that large area isn’t possible. So you talk about what happens if you get a big crowd, etc. It’s strange because we never did that on series one. In series one we walked Benedict [Cumberbatch] and Martin [Freeman] through Trafalgar Square on Steadicam on The Blind Banker and there were three girls that were slightly interested in the back because there was a camera but apart from that nobody batted an eyelid. You could never do that now. So it’s a lot of planning and a lot of thinking.
就圣巴塞洛缪医院为例，即使我们在那里拍外景，我们也不能封锁场地。它仍然是一个公共区域。所以，当我们在伦敦拍摄时，你不能完全封锁任何地点，因为一）伦敦不会允许你这样做，二）根本不实际。所以你要讨论如果有人群会有什么问题等等。这其实挺奇怪的，因为在第一季里，我们都没有讨论过这个。在第一季里 THE BLIND BANKER 里，BENEDICT 与 MARTIN 穿过特拉法加广场时，有三个女孩因为有摄影机而好奇了一点，但除此之外，没有人有任何兴趣。你现在不可能这么干了，所以很需要规划考虑的。
As a Director of Photography I’m in charge of three departments. The grip department, the electrical department and the camera department. In the grip department there’s usually two or three people— usually two people. We run a very different system to the American system here where we have a dolly grip and an assistant. In the electrical department I usually work with five sparks. We have a gaffer, a best boy, and then three sparks. In the camera department on Sherlock— pretty much every show I do these days we shoot two cameras so there will be myself operating one camera, and there will be another operator operating B camera or A camera. That depends on the show. There’ll be two focus pullers, or first ACs. There’ll be two second ACs, or clapper loaders as we call them. And there’ll usually be one trainee and possibly one person doing video assists, the person that’s in charge of all the monitors.
作为摄影指导，我负责三个部门：技师部、电器部门和摄像机部门。技师部通常有两个或三个人 – 通常是两个人。我们的制度和美国不同，我们有一个移动式摄影师和助手。在电器部平时有五个人。我们有一个灯光师，一个工头，然后三个队员。我现在拍任何戏剧都会用两架摄影机，我操作一架，并且将有另一组负责 B 或 A 摄像机。这取决于当天的需要。未来将有两个负责对焦，是第一摄影助理。另外会有两个第二摄影助理。而且通常会为一个实习生，还有视频助理，该人负责所有显示器。
During that pre-production process I filter all that information back to my departments. The gaffer, best boy, the operator and the grip will be on the recce so when we go and see a location they’ll say “do we need this here?” And I’ll say yes and why or whatever.
Then when you hit day one on The Empty Hearse you turn up— you know a normal day for us is eight ’till seven. So I usually get in around about seven, about an hour before. I either have breakfast at home or on the set. On The Empty Hearse we started with the scene where Mrs. Hudson was washing up her pan and Sherlock comes back. That was our first scene.
然后就开始拍摄了 – 我们第一部分是拍 THE EMPTY HEARSE。平常我们会从早上8点工作到傍晚7点。所以我通常大致提前一小时，大约七点抵达。我有时在家里吃早餐，有时在摄影棚吃。在拍 THE EMPTY HEARSE 时，我们从 MRS HUDSON 洗锅子和 SHERLOCK 回来的情景开始。这是我们的第一个场景。
What I try and do when we’re in the studio is I try and pre-light as much as I can because our days are pretty busy. We shoot an episode of Sherlock in twenty-one days. The studio gets built, it gets furnished, it gets dressed. I try to have a day in the studio before we start filming where I can put a basic set of light set-ups, both a day and night, evening. When I work in the studio I have everything back to dimmers. I only work with tungsten light in the studio which is traditionally what we have done but it’s the way to go. All the lights are numbered. They’re all on a dimmer channel. They all go back to a big desk that looks like a big mixing desk like you get in a studio.
On the first day you get there and we’re like “Right, what’s the first shot going to be?” So that first shot is the slow push through the doorway into Mrs. Hudson. So the first thing when we get there is that the doorway hasn’t got any finish on the outside of it because it’s built as a set. So Arwel Wyn Jones [Production Designer] who I have a very good relationship with (we’re friends as well as colleagues)… you have a standby art director on who’s basically in charge of looking after Arwel’s vision on set. So the first thing I say to the standby art director, I say “the director wants to do a shot which goes through the doorway but there’s no reveal on the outside of the door. Can you give Arwel a ring (‘cause he’s just upstairs where we are as a studio) Can we get a bit of partition and put it there just to make this work? So it’s problem solving. What you don’t want to do is turn around to the director and say “well we can’t do that because there’s no finish on the outside of the set.” What you do is say “Fine, we can do that. It’s going to take us ten minutes. We need to find a bit of flattage”
第一天到达那里，我们就说：“第一个镜头要拍什么？ ”第一个镜头是从门口缓缓推进直到 MRS HUDSON。当我们到达那里时，注意到的第一件事是门口外侧完全没有装饰，因为它是个搭起来的摄影棚。所以我告诉在一旁待机的艺术总监的第一件事是：“导演希望拍一个经过门口的镜头，但门外没有框。你能不能打个电话给美术指导ARWEL（WYN JONES）（因为他就在摄影棚楼上），告诉他我们为了拍那个镜头得搬一个隔墙。这就是解决问题。你不能跑去跟导演说：“我们做不到，因为门的外层没有完成。“ 你得说：“好吧，我们能做到这一点。我们需要十分钟，来找到一个面板。”
So we end up getting a bit of flattage, stealing it from another part of the set, putting it on, put a little table there with a lamp on it to create a good shape, and then we create our track. And that’s shot one, done. Then on to a close up of the pan being scrubbed and that’s literally it for the day. You’ve got to have a call sheet which has the scenes on it that you have to do and where you’ve got to go and you literally work through them and you don’t dwell that much time on stuff because if you do whatever time you spend in the morning you don’t have in the afternoon.
所以我们最终从摄影棚的另一部分搬出一个面板，放一个小桌子、一盏灯，弄得好看点，然后我们搭起摄影机的轨道。这就是第一个镜头，搞定。然后就推到近景拍 MRS HUDSON 洗锅子，这就是一天的工作了。你得有张拍摄日程表，告诉你有什么场景必须拍的、得去什么地方，然后你就按这个计划进行，不能花时间来回琢磨。多花的时间追不回来。
MJW: So everything is really planned out well in advance by the time you’re ready to shoot?
SL: Well the idea is that it should be planned, you know? The reality is that it never is. (laughs) I mean a great example— the trouble is that production works at such a speed that you’re always catching your tail. On The Empty Hearse the tube interior, which is a built set, an amazing built set by Arwel. I turned up the morning we were supposed to shoot. We had a whole day to shoot that scene on Steadicam with the two of them and I turned up in the morning and Arwel and Daf [Shurmer], his art director, were on there gluing bits of wire and they’d been up all night. It’s like when somebody’s had a party with their parents away and they’re trying to tidy up (laughs) and the paint’s still wet. Because things change all the time.
SL：嗯，理论上，一切都应该是早计划好的。但实际上，计划永远赶不上变化。（笑）我的意思是，制作非常紧张，你永远在赶时间。在 THE EMPTY HEARSE 里地铁内部的场景，是 ARWEL 搭出来的很棒的布景。该拍射的那天早上我到了那里，准备用一整天的时间用 STEADICAM 拍摄那场双人戏。ARWEL 和DAF[Shurmer]，他的艺术总监，两人已经赶工了一个通宵，还在那里粘一些电线什么的。这就像当有人趁父母离开时开派对，他们正忙着整理干净（笑），油漆还没干。因为情况永远都有变化。
And another thing that changed was the script changed. You don’t always have a locked script. You’re supposed to have a locked script when you start but what happens is say after day three you’ll get a rewrite— maybe one of the executives in London turns around and says “I don’t like that part of the script” or “I want to change that.” And then all of the sudden you get this change so whatever you’ve prepped goes out the window. We spend a lot of time prepping and in an ideal world that prep translates into what we do. I would say that 40% of the time that prep goes out the window. The way I work is that I like to be prepped in the way that I know I’ve got a plan based on plan A. My old boss used to say when people used to ask him what he did as a job he said he was a circus rigger. And it’s true because what you actually do is you’re effectively juggling stuff. You have to be incredibly flexible. So you have this kind of idea about what you want to do but then you’ve got to be able to change your mind and do something else very quickly.
另一个会改变的是脚本。你并不会总有一个锁定的脚本。当然理论上脚本是锁定的，但实际上有时三天之后就会有重写，也许在伦敦的高管之一说：“我不喜欢剧本那部分” 或“我想改变这情节“。有了这种突然的变化，你之前做的准备就等于零。我们花大量的时间准备，理想模型是这所有的准备都会用上。事实上， 40％的准备都是白费劲。我的工作方式是，我想至少能照着计划A做准备。我以前的老板常说，别人问他做什么工作时，他就告诉对方他是马戏团走钢丝的。这话不假，因为你真的得有效率地同时掌控好多事。你必须要非常灵活。所以，你知道你想要做什么，但你得能够改变你的想法，能飞快的改去做其他事。
Paul [McGuigan] is an example on series one. What Paul does as a director is he will always refuse your first idea. I worked out very quickly that by saying he doesn’t like what you suggest first, he’s trying to get something better. And it’s true, you might get something better! But when you learn that, you know that you can throw a patsy out there sometimes (laughs) and then give him your real idea. That, again is a relationship.
Somebody asked me the other day about how did we come up with the look and style of Sherlock. I said Paul and I sat down… have you seen the pilot?
有人问我关于我们是如何想出 SHERLOCK 的外观和风格。我说保罗和我坐了下来……你看过原版吗？
MJW: Oh yes, it’s extraordinarily different.
SL: It’s really odd because we had a pilot to look at. I’d already got the job by that point. Paul [McGuigan] gave me the DVD and said “what was that? Tell me what you think.” And I know the director and I know the DP that worked on it and I know they were under budgetary constraints, etc. But the conversation that Paul and I had once we saw the pilot was we’re not going to make it look like that. It almost like it was a benchmark not to achieve. I think because we had that reference… we weren’t just trying to make it better than that.
SL ：这真的很奇怪，因为我们有一个预播集来参考。我那时已经得到了这份工作。PAUL 给我看DVD ，说：“怎样？告诉我你的想法。“ 我认识导演和当时拍这个的摄影指导，我知道他们受到预算的限制，等等。但PAUL 和我曾经我们看到了原版之后，我们决定不准备拍成预播集那样。它几乎就像是一个不要去实现的标杆。我想是因为我们有这样的参考……我们不仅要拍一个更好的。
One of the great things about Paul is that Paul comes from a feature film background where he sees things as being big. There’s a big tendency within television or with people generally to say “that’ll be alright.” And lots of things will be alright I could spend my day saying that will be alright and would come up with a pretty average result. I accept that it will be alright. It’s my job to make it better. My approach to my work is— it’s not about doing the obvious. It’s also not about doing something which is…I mean you see some shows which are just style over substance. It’s like commercials. You look at a lot of commercials where they’re beautiful but there’s nothing there.
PAUL 的一大特长是，他有电影的背景，不会局限于电视剧的规模。在电视圈工作的人大多会说：“那样就够好了。“ 而很多事情就局限在”够好了“。，我能整天都觉得“够好了”，最后做出一个非常平庸的结果。我可以接受所谓的“够好”，可是我的工作是把它做的更好。我的工作理念是，不止步在做那些明显要做的事。但也不能……我是说有些节目形式大过内容，就像广告一样，虚有其表、内容空洞。
One of the things we always realized from the start about Sherlock is that if you’ve got Benedict [Cumberbatch] and Martin [Freeman] and you’ve got good dialogue, you can’t really fuck it up. You’ve really got to try hard to fuck it up. What you need to do is you need to create this world around them and work with them. One of the things that Paul and I set out to do with… one of the things I always do is try and create a world around the people, around the story that you’re doing. And that’s what we did. I mean we had a hard time on that first series. A lot of the time Sue [Vertue], the producer, thought things were too dark, thought we were being too brave. They thought we were on the edge of what was kind of… There’s always this argument about TV and film and what you can get away with in film. I think that’s nonsense.
我们从拍 SHERLOCK 开始就意识到，当你有了 BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH 和 MARTIN FREEMAN，加上杰出的对白，真要搞砸也难。你得付出不少努力才能把它搞砸。你需要做的是在他们周围营造一个环境，并与他们合作。PAUL 和我从一开始就做的事情之一，就是试图以人物和故事为中心，创造一个属于他们的世界。我们就是这么做的。拍第一季的时候我们遇上不少困难。很多时候制片人 SUE VERTUE觉得我们搞得太黑暗了，觉得我们过于大胆。他们觉得我们是想要制造那种边缘的。。。事实上，总有一些人会辩论什么手法该属于电视、什么属于电影，哪些是电影里可以表达的而电视节目不可以。我认为这是无稽之谈。
The audience is incredibly educated. We grow up watching Spielberg films, watching great pieces of cinema. We go and see opera. Most people are so artistically educated by the time they’re eighteen. And then when you get people turning around and saying the audience don’t notice or they won’t realize or … it’s nonsense. Everybody has an eye and an understanding. They might not be able to describe what the differences are but they know by seeing what those differences are. I think that’s really important. I think that one of the things that Paul [McGuigan] brought to the first series was that bigger vision of thinking let’s make this show the way we want to make it. Who cares if it’s TV? Who cares if it’s a film? Let’s just make what’s right for it. That’s what went on.
观众是受过教育的。我们看着 SPIELBERG 的电影长大，观看伟大的电影作品，欣赏歌剧。我们去看歌剧。大多数人到了18岁时，已经受到不少艺术教育。可是却有人反过来说观众不会注意到、不会意识到或者其他废话。每个人都懂得去观看和理解。他们可能无法形容有什么差异，但他们看到这些差异时会明白。我认为这是非常重要的。我认为，PAUL 给第一个季的贡献之一是，他让我们的创造空间更广阔，有更大更自由的表达空间。谁管它是电视还是电影呢？我们只在乎用最恰当的方式把故事表达出来。
It was quite interesting because when we did the first series where I worked with Euros [Lyn] on the second block [The Blind Banker] — it’s always strange working on the show when you get different directors. You just get used to one director and you usually get tired by the end of the block you’ve worked with one director and then the next director comes along and I call them the Duracell Bunny. They turn up with all these ideas, all energized and like the whole crew is knackered. Very rarely are they able to say “I really like what you’ve done before and we’re going to continue it.” Very often what they want to do is they want to change things because they want to do things their way. It’s quite difficult for me because you set up a style or something and you get into this gear with somebody and all of the sudden you get a week to spend and it’s like— you’ve been in a relationship. you’ve worked so intensely with somebody and you’re almost like in a relationship with them and all of the sudden you’re supposed to go — oh you’re working with this person. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t work. It can be hard.
这相当有趣，因为我跟 EUROS LYN 拍第二段（THE BLIND BANKER）时– 在这份工作里，你和不同的导演合作时总会觉得有点怪。你刚刚习惯了一个导演，和他拍完一段，已经感觉到疲惫的时候，突然又来了另一个导演。我称他们为金霸王兔子。他们会带来一堆新想法，一堆精力，但在这时候整个剧组都十分疲惫了。他们很少会说：“我很喜欢你们之前的拍法，就这么继续下去吧。”很多时候他们想要作出变化，用他们自己的方式做事。对我来说是挺麻烦的。因为你已经有某种风格，和别人培养了一种默契，结果突然间又得花一个星期和另一个人合作。这就像谈恋爱一样，你和某人合作密切到像是已经和他们成为了伴侣一样，一转眼你就得离开——现在你要和另一个人过了。不是每次都行得通。有的时候非常困难。
MJW: You shot The Great Game first, right? And then was it The Blind Banker and then A Study in Pink? Was it backwards?
MJW：你先拍 THE GREAT GAME，再拍 THE BLIND BANKER， 最后是 A STUDY IN PINK ？是反着来的吗？
SL: Correct. It was backwards. Correct.
MJW: So you’re going between two directors and sandwiched in the middle you’ve got [Euros] Lyn, right?
SL: Yeah I mean we had four weeks’ prep in the beginning— Paul [McGuigan] and I did a lot of prep and I had one week’s prep with Euros. We work in different systems. In America you’ve got a show like Breaking Bad and you’ll have a lead director who will also be an executive producer. What they’ll do is they’ll direct the first couple of shows but they’ll also have editorial control over the other shows so the show has this uniform vision.
SL ：是啊，我的意思是，我们开始有四个星期的准备 –我和PAUL [McGuigan] 做了很多准备，和EUROS 有一个星期的准备。我们的工作方式不一样。在美国像 BREAKING BAD 这种剧，你会有一个首席导演兼执行制片人。他们只会导的头一两集，但他们有编辑控制权，因此节目会有统一风格。
We tend not to do that in the UK. We tend to have a lead director that does the first couple of shows, or the first show and then we have another director that comes in after. If that second director wants to change that format completely— I mean they’re often asked not to by production but if they want to come in and go “well actually I don’t agree with what he was doing I’m going to do it this way” then they’ll do that. You know because there’s nobody saying “hang on a minute, we’re trying to set up a show here that’s got a style.” I think it’s more down to script and I think there are better episodes of Sherlock than others. And quite often they’re down to which scripts are which. It’s an interesting place to be as the cinematographer, where you’re trying to keep this thing going but it’s not necessarily what the new director wants.
我们在英国往往不这样做。我们通常有一个首席导演，负责节目的头一两集，然后又有另一名导演接手。如果第二个导演希望完全改变节目的风格 – 我的意思是，往往剧组会要求不要做太大的改变，但他们往往会说，“我不认同之前的做法，我想要换另一种方式”，然后就这么干了。没有人会说：“等一下，我们节目的风格是这样的。“ ”我认为通常这是靠脚本决定的。 SHERLOCK 某几集会比较出色，这取决于脚本的强弱。摄影师在其中的作用很微妙，你会试图保持这剧的风格，但它不一定是新导演想要的东西。
MJW: That’s one of the questions I had because there seemed to be strangely a lot more continuity in a way with season one of Sherlock. Season three seems to be… I mean it’s spectacular but it doesn’t have that overall.. I don’t know what the word I’m looking for but…
SL: It’s probably what I would call… I think that one of the issues that I think Sherlock suffers from is that— and it’s quite interesting because I read this in a review the other day is that if — on a series like Breaking Bad or a big American series you get like thirteen, fourteen episodes in a season. So out of those thirteen, fourteen episodes you can have one that doesn’t quite work. You can have one that’s completely wacky. You can go through all this.
SL ：我觉得这大概可以被称为……我认为，SHERLOCK 的问题之一是 — 这相当有意思，我前两天刚看到一篇评论 — 像 BREAKING BAD 之类的美国剧集，一季有十三，十四集。所以那十三，十四集里面，你可以有一集不怎么样。你可以有一集完全古怪搞笑。这都行得通。
What you get with Sherlock is you get three episodes. And you have to wait two years for those episodes to turn up so… I think all three episodes of the new series work in their own way but also I do think it’s changed from series one. I think with series one the scripts were more… They were series one. It’s difficult because if this series were series one then we could be talking about it in the same way. The problem is when a series becomes successful and you carry on you’ll always compare it to what’s gone before.
可是 SHERLOCK 你就只有三集。你得等上两年才有新的三集，所以…我想第三季的三集各有个的好，但我也确实认为它与第一季完全不同了。我觉得第一季的剧本更… 那是第一季。做任何比较都是困难的。如果这还是第一季，那么我们可以用同样的方式谈论它。问题是，当一部剧成功了，接下去拍的续集就永远会被拿来和以前的做比较。
One of the things Benedict [Cumberbatch] said to me when we started series three — it was about series two which I didn’t do — was about A Scandal in Belgravia which is, I think again, a great script. The dynamic between Lara Pulver and Benedict is just amazing. That zing that you get— everything else pales in significance, you know. I think we got that on series one with Moriarty. You get that power going on. Obviously with series three episode one is…a lot of it is about the reunion of the two.
第三季开拍时，BENEDICT 对我说 — 那是关于不是我拍的第二季，有关 A SCANDAL IN BELGRAVIA。我觉得那是个很棒的剧本。LARA PULVER 和 BENEDICT 之间的互动实在是太棒了。那种触电的感觉让其他都显得失色了。我认为我们在第一季里 MORIARTY有同样的效应。你能感到那种效果。当然，第三季的头一集……大部分是关于两人的重聚。
Episode two is a lot about a wedding which is quite interesting because if you think about the original even though they get married there wasn’t ever a book about the wedding and I think that’s for a good reason because weddings generally are long, tedious things, you know? But that doesn’t mean.. I think the episode works. It’s just that in terms of a classic Sherlock that we created in the first series I think that what Steven [Moffat] and Mark [Gatiss] will say is that it’s a show about a detective, it’s not a detective show, which is very true. Again it’s the argument about what is right or wrong or what is different. Sherlock’s gone slightly different. But whereas the last episode then stirs it all up again and gets a little more back to where it is.
第二集大多是关于婚礼。这相当有趣，因为如果你仔细想想，即使在原著里，WATSON 他们的婚礼并没有写成一本书，我认为这很好，因为婚礼一般都很冗长繁琐，不是吗？这倒不是说… 我觉得那一集很不错。只是我们在第一季创造了经典的侦探形象，我想STEVEN MOFFAT 和 MARK GATISS会说，这是一个关于侦探的故事，而不是一个侦探故事。的确是这样。什么是对的做法，什么是错的做法，又或者只是不同的做法，这没有一致的认识。Sherlock确实是有点不一样了。但是在最后一集，高潮再次掀起，这剧又回到更接近原来的样子。
I really enjoyed doing the first series. The first series is probably one of the toughest jobs I’ve ever done, probably one of the most demanding things I’ve ever done. If I look back at it, there’s some amazing stuff in it.
MJW: The Great Game in particular is just phenomenal, it’s just phenomenal. One of my favorite parts in it is the Golem scene. Can you tell me a little bit about how that came about? It’s just so spectacular.
MJW：特别是 THE GREAT GAME，实在是精彩绝伦，精彩绝伦。其中我最欣赏的一幕是挑战 GOLEM 那一段。可否分享那一段的拍摄过程？那段实在是太棒了。
SL: With the projection?
SL: There was this scene with The Golem where they had to have this face off and it was like “Where are we going to set it?” I remember having this conversation with [Paul McGuigan] about this planetarium in London which is no longer there. It used to be part of the Madame Tussauds thing but I went there as a kid and it was a domed interior, auditorium where they had this thing that looked like an ant in the middle which was a projector [Zeiss planetarium projector] and it projected all these stars and you got taken around the universe. And it was a really interesting experience as a child.
SL ：有这一幕，他们必须和 GOLEM 这个角色对决，我们就在想，这一幕该在什么地点发生？我记得和 PAUL 谈到一个在伦敦的天文馆，它已经不在了。它曾经是的杜莎夫人蜡像馆的一部分。我很小的时候去过，它有一个室内穹顶，像礼堂一般，中间有个看起来像蚂蚁的一台投影机 [蔡司天文投影机] ，它会把这些星星投射在天花板上，然后你就能观赏宇宙。对一个孩子来说，那是一个非常有趣的经历。
One of the ideas was that they were going to be in this auditorium. I think Arwel was saying it could be a planetarium. I actually did a show before where I used a projector, Place of Execution, where we used a projector with a half silvered mirror, which basically allows some light to travel through and some light to travel back to reflect back on an actor’s face. It was a wonderful aesthetic. I suggested that we have this projection on the screen, but when we get into this fight we’d use the projector as a light source but also to create this cacophony of color and contrast.
其中一个想法是，他们要在这个礼堂对决。ARWEL 说那大概是一个天文馆。其实，我在另一部剧PLACE OF EXECUTION 里用过一台具有一个半镀银镜投影机，基本上可以让一些光通过，一些光反射到演员的脸上。那有种奇妙的美感。我建议我们投影在屏幕上，但是进入打斗部分的时候，我们会使用投影仪作为光源，顺便利用那杂乱的色彩和对比。
One of the things we use on Sherlock a lot is uncoated lenses, the old dry super speed lenses. Somebody sits there and scrubs all the coating off the front, all the stuff that’s supposed to reduce the flares gets removed. What you see in that scene particularly is when you get a projection or any sort of light source in the frame you get these wonderful halos and spherical flares. I got the art department to get another projector with other images on which I could use hand held and project against faces.
So when John’s got the gun and things like that. We talked about things like timing, like getting the explosion at the end when he shoots. I’d love to sit here in an interview and say those were all planned but they weren’t. Most of it’s kismet. It’s just meant to be, you know. What’s interesting about that scene is that we actually shot it in about an hour. We were so behind by the time we got to shoot that scene that Paul pretty much said “we do what we do” and I went “let’s go handheld and get this thing in.” That guy, that guy that plays the Golem is enormous. It’s quite unnerving having him around. He’s not a stunt player, really. He’s not an actor either, he’s just kind of a big guy. It was quite funny because we had this stunt man there and there was this one time when he was almost strangling Martin [Freeman] (laughs and pretends to choke).
然后当 JOHN 拿到了枪。我们谈论过这幕的速度步伐，例如在最后他开枪的时候会有小小的爆破效果之类的东西。我很想说这些都是计划好的，但其实没有。其中大部分是侥幸得到的，是天意。有意思的是我们其实只用了大约一个小时拍摄那场戏。到那一幕的时候，我们已经严重落后进度了，PAUL 基本上就是在说：“我们直接上了”，我就说，“好，就用手持设备，一次过。” 那扮演 GOLEM 的人很巨大。在他身边会觉得很渺小，会有点不舒服。他不是特技演员，也其实不是演员，就只是一个高大的家伙。这顶有趣的，因为我们有个特技演员，有次他差点把 MARTIN FREEMAN勒死 （笑，假装呛） 。
It’s a great example of when you have very little time it tends to make you focus. What happens when you’re short of time, you run on instinct. If you’ve got all the time in the world you’ll sit there and you’ll deliberate.
It’s the analogy about going into a restaurant and looking at a menu and the first thing you look at and decide is the right thing. When you’ve got quite a lot of time you then whip through the rest of the menu and you change your mind and you order something else when you really should have gone for the first thing you looked at.
And it’s exactly the same for when we do what we do. If you’ve got a lot of time you’ll walk in there and you’ll think I could do it that way, that way, and that way. When you’ve got no time you go in and go “Right. What we’re going to do we’re going to do,” and it focuses the mind and you do things instinctively and that scene is a great example of doing things instinctively. Probably at the end of the day we walked away thinking my God did we actually get the scene? Did we do it? With a very good bit of editing from Charlie [Phillips] you see the result as being an amazing scene.
而这跟我们做的是完全一样的。如果你有很多的时间，你会认为我可以这样做，或那样做，还可以那样做。当你已经没有时间，你会说：“好。我们能怎么做就怎么做”。你会集中精神、相信本能。之前那一幕就是靠本能的一个很好的例子。一天下来我们说不定忍不住想，天啊，我们真的搞定这场戏了吗？真的拍成了吗？ 在CHARLIE PHILLIPS的精巧剪接后，结果是令人惊叹的一场戏。
MJW: Absolutely. Was that scene intentionally inspired by the silent film [The Golem]? The coloring and whatnot? Do you know?
MJW：真的非常精彩。那一幕是不是默片 THE GOLEM 启发的？例如选用的颜色？
SL: I mean parts of it were. It wasn’t something we talked about majorly. We do tend to talk about color a lot. One of the things I believe in is contrast through color — probably why when you see a lot of my work you’ll see— probably not so much in Death Comes to Pemberley because it’s period but all of my contemporary work you’ll see a lot of lavender, a lot of indigo, a lot of other colors that you don’t normally see. Like in A Study in Pink I used a lot of lavender in the back of the shot all the time. I wish I still had it but when Benedict saw the first series he left me an answer phone message basically saying that it had all fallen into place, everything that I’d done. It was wonderful because very few people see the little things that you do. I mean there are people that see it but when people do see it it’s very flattering that people get it. It’s why you do your job.
SL：有一部分是。我们并没有真正谈论这回事。我们倒常谈论颜色。我喜欢运用颜色对比 – 这就是大概就是为什么当你看到我很多的作品中，你会看到– 可能在 DEATH COMES TO PEMBERLEY 没那么多，因为那是古装剧 — 但我所有的当代作品中，有很多淡紫色，很多靛蓝，很多你通常不会看到的颜色。像在 A STUDY IN PINK，我在镜头的后方用了不少淡紫色。我希望我仍然有留着 BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH 看到第一季给我留下的电话留言。基本上是说，我做的都很到位。这是非常棒的，因为很少有人会注意到这种细节。我的意思是，一定有人看到，但是当人们确实看到而明白你的意图时，这非常让我感到鼓舞。这是你工作的动力。
The drive for me with A Study in Pink— it wasn’t just the storyline— because we were shooting in London in contemporary London I wanted to make it feel Victorian. I wanted to create this Victoriana for the film. What I wanted to do was move away from the big— what most people tend to do is when you’re shooting an exterior night scene you put a daylight lamp on a cherry picker and you backlight a road and what you tend to get is a big kick on the road, a big backlit scene. It works for lots of things but it’s very kind of Home Alone — that star thing. It’s quite big and brash. I moved away from that a long time ago, basically wanting to create an exterior night which is like the exterior night that you see. As the conversation we had on twitter about Gregory Crewdson — what I love about Crewdson’s work is that he captures what I feel we really see with our eyes although it’s heightened and it’s exaggerated. It’s that idea of sodium light, that sort of radiation you get off sodium light, fluorescent light, all those different tones and colors you know how they kick off a pavement, how they kick off the road, things like wet-downs you know. I’m forever winding production up because I want roads wet down.
对我来说，我在拍 A STUDY IN PINK 的动力，不只是故事情节，而是想在当代伦敦里让它感觉上有维多利亚时代的风格。我想为这部剧创造一个维多利亚的世界。我想要摆脱大制作的模式。大多数人会在拍摄夜景时会在移动升降台上放个日光灯，给马路打上背光，制造一个庞大的背光场景。很多时候这很好用，但它是一种非常 HOME ALONE 的大制作的感觉。我很久以前就放弃那手法了。基本上我想把我们平常看到的夜景搬到荧幕里。我们在 TWITTER 上聊到GREGORY CREWDSON – 我喜欢 CREWDSON 的作品，是因为他能够捕捉我们的眼睛所看到的场景，虽然是经过了夸大增幅的。就是那种钠灯、荧光灯的那种辐射，把所有这些不同的色调和颜色，反射在人行道路面上，就像那种淋湿的路面的反射。我总会惹毛剧组，因为我要弄湿道路。
With Sherlock we were limited with things we could use in terms of big lights but I didn’t want to use a big back light which was the traditional thing to do. I wanted to create pools of light. I wanted to create depth through pools of light. I wanted to create bokeh and I wanted those contrasts and that color to be in the frame. It was something I’d done before in another show where you take a color gel like lavender and you put it on one lamp and you kick it against the wall or you kick it up against a tree. The sense is you normally look at it and go “where the hell is that light coming from?” because it’s bright, it’s lavender but if you get it right and it’s peripheral, it’s just a little tone in the background, especially if it’s out of focus.
Within a frame where you’ve got an actor here (makes a frame with his hand and points to the actor at the side of the frame) and all this out-of-focus bit here (gestures to the rest of the frame) it becomes a shade and a color. I spend half my time worrying about Benedict and I spend half my time worrying about this bit out of focus here. The whole frame is what’s interesting. If you only worry about this bit and don’t worry about that bit then it gets quite boring so you need to worry about the actor but you need to worry about the whole of the rest of the frame as well.
Which is where I talk about Crewdson. If you look at a Crewdson frame it’s like a painting. It’s like a Dutch master: you can look at parts of the frame, you can sit there. That’s what I try and do with my cinematography. I try and create frames that if they were put on a still people would look at them and go “there’s depth in the frame” which brings me to the importance of framing and relationships in the frame. There are lots of people who’ve talked about Paul [McGuigan] using the rule of thirds, and no disrespect to Paul but he’s never ever thought anything about the rule of thirds. I work on the golden section which is basically the rule of thirds, which is where you place things in a frame.
所以刚谈到 CREWDSON 。如果你看一个 CREWDSON 掌镜的镜头，它就像一幅画。这就像一个荷兰大师一般：你可以看画面的小部分，你可以坐在那里慢慢研究。这是我的摄影所要捕捉到的。如果我拍摄的镜头被放在一个框架里，让别人观赏，我要他们觉得那画面有深度，这是取景和画面结构的重要性。有很多人跟 PAUL 解释过三分法。我并不是不尊重PAUL，但他从来没有想过三分法来看镜头。我会以黄金比例，也差不多就是三分法，来构造一个画面。
You’ve only got to look at fine art and look at framing within fine art and in any particular well-known picture you’ll see that everything is in a particular part of the frame for a reason. It tells the story. The story is told by where things are in relationship in the frame whether they’re central in the frame, whether they’re peripheral. Sometimes I’ll shoot somebody and I’ll frame only half their face. It’s an unconventional frame but you’re actually saying something very important with that frame. I very rarely put some people in the middle of my frame— it’s something that people do all the time. I only put somebody in the middle of the frame when I really want to make it a point of it really being about them. I spend half my time thinking about framing as I do lighting as a cinematographer because I think the story is told via the frame.
I’m a huge fan of Asian, Korean films. The close up is never on the person speaking, it’s on the person listening. It’s not about the dialogue, it’s about how you present the story. Also things like Krzysztof Kieślowski— one of my great inspirations in terms of film to do what I’ve done. The Three Colors trilogy, The Decalogue. If you look at what Kieślowski does, he tells a story visually. Quite often in a Kieślowski film you’ll get no dialogue for quite some time but you know exactly what’s going on, or it’s in Polish, but you still know what’s going on because a story’s being told. As a cinematographer one of the most important things to me is about telling a story. My lighting and my photography has to complement the story. If it ever detracts from that then I’m not doing my job.
我是亚洲电影的超级粉丝。他们不会给说话的人特写，而是聚焦在听话的人上。因为电影不是关于对话，而是关于你如何呈现你的故事。还有 KRZYSZTOF KIESLOSKI 的作品给了我很大的启发。THE THREE COLORS 三部曲，THE DECALOGUE。你去看KIESLOWSKI的作品，他都是通过镜头呈现故事。他的电影里很多时候没有对白，但你会知道究竟发生了什么事情，又或者演员用波兰语交谈，但你还是明白故事情节。对我来说，作为一个摄影师的最重要的事情是讲故事。我的灯光和我的摄影得衬托故事。如果它让人从故事上分心，那么我就没有做好我的本分。
When I go to the cinema to watch a film — I went to go see Gravity in 3D and I hate 3D films.
我去看 3D 版的GRAVITY — 我讨厌3D电影。
SL: Yeah, I can’t stand them. I went to see it because my friend Olly worked on it and I was told it was groundbreaking in terms of what it does and you know I have to say I loved it. I thought it was amazing. One of the things I do when I go to the cinema is — it’s quite difficult for me not to see all the seams, not to see all the bits and pieces that make up the whole. I go and see Gravity and I’m aware of this long shot at the beginning and after about 10 minutes I’m just engrossed in this world of Sandra Bullock and it’s like a roller coaster ride. My heart rate is going up and I’m watching this film and like that (snaps) the ninety minutes are over. And I’m like “this is brilliant.” I’ve escaped, you know, I’ve been immersed in this. It doesn’t matter how they did the lighting, it doesn’t matter how they did the CGI, it doesn’t matter how tricksy it is. For me Gravity worked because ultimately there’s a story being told there. Everything else— all those wonderful technical achievements are there to support that story. For me that’s brilliant film-making.
SL ：是啊，我受不了3D。我去看的时候，是为了捧我的朋友OLLY 的场，而且大家都说这有多开创性。我不得不说我非常喜欢它。我认为这是令人惊叹的。我看电影时会犯职业病 -我会看到所有的接缝，看到所有构成整个画面的点点滴滴。我去看 GRAVITY 就留意到开始的这个长镜头，但在约10分钟以后，我只是醉心于 SANDRA BULLOCK 的世界。就像坐过山车一样刺激。我心跳不断的加速，一眨眼九十分钟时间就结束了。我只能说，这真的太厉害了。我完全沉浸在电影的环境里。我不管他们的照明、电影特效、手法技巧。对我来说，GRAVITY 是成功的，因为最终它讲了一个故事。其他的一切 – 所有奇妙的技术成果都衬托着故事。对我来说，这是卓越的电影制作。
MJW: So how do you know what story you’re telling? Because you’ve got the script, and the actors, the gestures they’re going to make, do the writers and the director decide what the meaning is and then you execute that? What do you mean by creating a story? What story? Subtext? Atmosphere?
SL: I think it’s the way that I view the story. What I tend to do when I block a scene, I mean I’ll take Sherlock for an example since we’re talking about it. So if we’re in 221B and we’ve got a scene between Benedict and Martin — and this would be the same in any show that I do— actors will walk on set. They’ve got one page of dialogue to do. They do a rehearsal which is quite often called a word run which is just them doing the dialogue without even thinking about where they’re going to stand or anything. If you get good actors like Benedict and Martin what they’ll do is they’ll already be in character when they do that word run. Because they haven’t been told by a director that they need to stand by the window or they haven’t been told by me that they need to sit down or anything like this quite often they’ll do things in that word run which are very natural. Through their body language, it might be that one of them turns away from the other person or it might be that one of them walks up to the other person. Quite often they’ll do things which are very organic and true to life. And that for me is the story.
SL ：我认为是我看故事的观点。在排练走位的时候我会–就拿 SHERLOCK 来说，我们在221B拍一场BENEDICT和MARTIN的戏–我拍的其他剧也都是这样–演员会在片场走动。他们要讲一整页的台词。他们会做个常被称为对词的彩排，也就是只讲台词，不去想他们该站在哪里等等。如果你有像 BENEDICT 和 MARTIN 一样优秀的演员，彩排时他们早就已经进入角色了。因为导演还没告诉他们要站在窗前，我也没叫他们坐下之类的，往往在对词过程中他们会很自然的以角色的肢体语言来诠释台词。可能是是一个转身，又或是一个眼神。通常他们的这些表演是非常真实生动的。这对我来说就是故事。
The story is you’ve got these two people and they’re talking about something. The story is about the human condition. It’s about the way we are as humans, the way that we’re affected by each other. I think that’s something we all instinctively do and know even if we’re not aware of it. That, to me, is the story. And what I think I try and do is try and preserve that.
So when we come to do a rehearsal and the director starts saying “why don’t you go and try it sat down on the chair” Benedict might say “well I don’t think I’d be sat in the chair” then I might chime in and say “there is this really interesting thing you did in the rehearsal was that you walked away and looked out the window” and he’ll say “yeah yeah” and I’ll say “I think that’s really interesting because you did that on that beat and I think that’s quite poignant because…” This is something that happens with the directors I work with is I get quite involved with that process about body language and shape and what people are doing because to me what I’m doing is looking at it in terms of the human condition and in terms of the way we react to the situation and what I want to do is capture that, preserve that, so that to me is the story.
所以当我们排练时，导演可能说：“试试坐到椅子上讲这些台词。” BENEDICT 可能会说： “唔，我不认为我会坐在椅子上”，那么我可能帮腔，说：“你刚才排练时做的那个挺有趣，，就是你走到窗前、看着窗外” ，他会说：“是啊是啊” ，我会说：“我认为这很有意思，因为你在那个节骨眼这么做，我认为那相当令人伤感，原因是… “与我一起工作的导演会发现我很在意复杂的肢体语言、形状、过程，因为我做的是挑出故事的人性的那一面，找出作反应的情况，这是我想要捕捉保存的故事。
When I talk about the story it’s that sense.. if you are looking in on a scene and that what you want to feel when you’re looking in is — you know how you watch some shows and you go “nobody’d do that. People don’t do that.” It’s kind of like when people drive like that (puts hands on an imaginary steering wheel and moves it in the exaggerated way people drive on TV.) When people do stuff like that it cuts through the illusion of what we’re doing. One of the things for me is to try and capture a scene by being as flexible as possible but also seeing those little nuances that people do and getting them. That then translates to what you see. If you can capture those special little moments then you can tell the story. That’s what’s important to me.
我所说的故事性就是这个意思。。。如果你正在看一个场景，你要寻找到的感觉是 – 你看有一些节目的时候，会觉得“没人会干这事。哪有人会这么做？” 比如有些开车的场景会开得很夸张（假装用力转动驾驶盘）。一旦观众看到这种画面，他们就会留意到自己是在看节目，就抽离了故事。对我来说，我尽可能试图捕捉一个场景和小细节，转化为你所看到的。如果你能捕捉那些特别的小时刻，那么故事就已经呈现了。这对我很重要。
MJW: I was just thinking about the framing in the scene in The Great Game where Sherlock’s got the tennis shoes [trainers] and he’s pulling the laces up and he’s through two or three different windows. Can you tell me a little bit about how that came to be?
MJW：我刚刚在想THE GREAT GAME 里 的一个画面框架，SHERLOCK 拿着了网球鞋、拉扯鞋带的镜头，是通过两个或三个不同的窗口拍的。能不能告诉我那主意是怎么来的的？
SL: That’s not actually the lab, the lab where we shoot. It’s around the corner in the same building but because when we’ve always shot in the lab we always had the windows closed to create this environment of this lab. Paul [McGuigan] wanted to have this viewpoint of him [Sherlock] in through the window so the only way we could do it is we found this room which looked across into another room through an atrium so it’s two frames and then Benedict so it’s a completely manufactured shot. Where he is is nothing to do with the lab at all. We liked the idea of the frame within the frame. Paul and I both like the idea of shooting through frames and finding people through things. It’s another example of what you do in real life. You very rarely have this wonderful straight view of people.
SL：那其实不是我们平常拍摄的实验室。这是在同一栋楼转角处的另一个房间。因为我们平常用来拍摄的实验室总是紧闭窗户，营造实验室的环境。PAUL 想有一个通过窗口看到SHERLOCK的镜头，所以我们可以做到这一点的唯一方法是找别的房间拍，通过一个中庭望向对面另一个房间，所以BENEDICT在两个框里。这完全是人工制造的场景。他的所在地根本不是实验室。我们喜欢框内有框的想法。PAUL 和我都喜欢通过框架拍摄，和贯穿东西找人的想法。这是你在现实生活中会做的事情的另一个例子。你很少能不受阻碍的直线观察别人。
I love the partial shot in Chinatown of Faye Dunaway or whoever it is. When they shot the rushes the producers came back and you’ve got to actually show her. The director turned around and said “Well you come to the rushes screening and you see what happens. Literally when the shot comes on everybody does that (leans over looking off the screen for the rest of her) (laughs) You’re trying to look round the corner. It’s all things to play with.
我爱FAYE DUNAWAY 还是谁的在电影 CHINATOWN 里面的局部镜头。他们拍完样片以后，制作人跑回来说，你们得拍下她全貌。导演说：“嗯，你来看看样片再说。” 播到那一幕时，所有人都这样（俯身望着屏幕以外，想看到她的其余部分）（笑）你想看看转角出有什么。这就是好玩的地方。
The same thing about that frame in Sherlock. It’s a big frame with this other box and a little box and then there’s Benedict there. Next thing you know you’re into this big little closeup. It’s establishing the world that he’s in but getting into this… The thing that Kieślowski did a lot where in Three Colors: Blue he used macro shots all the time of little details and it’s to show that Juliette Binoche’s character is very blinkered by her view on life. Whenever it came to her point of view everything was shot in big little close-ups. I think that’s a really interesting idea, You’re trying to get in that perception in the way that somebody sees or in some ways you’re forcing the viewer to see things a certain way, to view things a certain way, to get that point of view. It’s all a part of the tool kit we have to tell the story.
SHERLOCK的画面框架也是一样。一个大框架，里面有一个矩形和另外一个小矩形，然后才是 BENEDICT在那里。接下来你就进入这个拉近的小特写。它是在建立 SHERLOCK 的世界，但要说这个……唔，KIESLOWSKI 在他的 THE THREE COLORS 三部曲用了很多这种手法：BLUE里面，他频频使用微距拍摄小细节，以此表明JULIETTER BINOCHE 那个角色的生活观非常狭隘。当镜头代表她的观点时，都会使用大特写。我认为这是一个很意思的做法，你是在把这种观点插在观众的观看角度里，或者说你是在迫使观众用某种特定的视觉角度来看事物，从而领略其中意义。这只是我们叙述故事的众多工具中的一种。
MJW: One of the things that’s so interesting about Season 3 is seeing things from Sherlock’s perspective and it’s so different in a way I can’t really quantify. What’s different? At some point I think you mentioned that you used different cameras for Sherlock’s point of view? Is that the case?
MJW：第三季有一点我认为挺有意思的是观众是以 SHERLOCK 的角度来看故事的发展，这让第三季有一种无法形容的不同。到底是什么改变了？你之前提到，当你们拍 SHERLOCK 的观点的时候，会采用不同的摄影机，是这个不同吗？
SL: We didn’t use different cameras for his point of view. What we did use on The Empty Hearse was two cameras together in a kind of stereo converged configuration. So a lot of the stuff where he’s in his mind palace or on the tube and you see him come in and go out go back and come in, that’s a new thing we discovered on series three. The original idea of Sherlock’s point of view was always based on taking stills. I came up with the idea and Paul [McGuigan] wanted— on series one we agonized about how we would show the world differently from Sherlock’s perspective.
SL：我们没有为了带出他的视点而使用不同的相机。我们在拍 THE EMPTY HEARSE 的时候确实使用了两个摄像头，做成一种立体的融合效果。所以每当他在他的心灵宫殿或是地铁上，你看到他进来出去、回去进来的视觉效果。这是我们在第三季发现的新事物。最初展现SHERLOCK视点的方法是用静景。这是我的主意，PAUL 也很喜欢。在第一季里我们苦苦思索如何向观众展示 SHERLOCK 眼中的世界有多与众不同。
One of the things we talked about was basically shooting the scene twice in two different styles which is a great idea but it’s kind of unfeasible in terms of production because you need twice as much time and also it’s really weird to think about how you’d do it compared to how you just shot it. We were brainstorming about ideas and I had this idea of — I’d done it in a series once before where we’d taken a series of stills from a big wide shot into somebody’s eye and then morphed them together.
我们讨论过的方法之一是将同一幕以两种不同的风格拍摄。这是一个有趣的想法，但它不可行，因为你需要花两倍的时间，而且你会一直考虑到下面要怎么拍才和刚刚拍摄的手法不同。在集思广益的过程中，我有了这个想法 – 我曾经在另一部剧集里用过，就是采一系列的静景，从大镜头到人的眼睛，然后融在一起成为一个镜头。
Basically the guy was injecting drugs and it was the idea of right at that point when he was getting high that it’s going into his pupil dilating. I was talking about this to Paul and even though he’s a very visual director he can’t understand anything unless he sees it. I remember going home with my iPhone and taking a series of stills in my front room up to my wife’s face and then compiling the little video and putting it on my phone and then taking it to work the next day which is the Sherlock vision that you know and love now and see. I’m showing him this shot and him going “yes, I really like that.” It was that idea that you start here and you go into something that you do it as a series of stills. We did that on series one which they kind of continued on series two for series three…
基本上，这家伙在注射毒品，我的想法是在他是越来越 HIGH的瞬间，镜头就去拍他扩张的瞳孔。我跟保罗解释这个想法，但就算是他这样一个非常视觉化的导演，没看到实际片子他也无法理解。我记得回家后我用我的 iPhone拍了一系列的照片，从我的房间一路拍到我妻子的脸，然后编辑成一小段视频，放进我手机里，第二天我给 PAUL 展示了这个镜头，也就是你现在看到的SHERLOCK 的视点。他真的很喜欢。我们的做法是你从某点开始，用静景照片一路推进到另一点。第一季里头我们这样做了，后面两季他们也延续了这个手法。
I think it comes out of the fact that with another director they don’t necessarily understand what you’ve done before, I mean you talk to them about the idea of stills a) I’m not completely sure if they understand it but b) they want to do something different you know because it’s season three and Jeremy [Lovering] is first director and he wants to do something different. So we came up with the idea of the two 5Ds [Canon cameras] together. It was the idea that if you set a point of convergence and you have something moving at some point you’ll get these two images and they’ll come together and they’ll go apart again. It was mainly a continuation of his mind palace— just trying to visually create something different to express what goes on in Sherlock’s head.
我觉得事实是很多时候导演们不一定知道你以前都有过什么经验。我的意思是你跟他们谈照片的想法的时候，我不能完全确定他们到底懂了没，但是他们想要不同的东西，因为已经到第三季了，JEREMY LOVERING 作为第一导演，他希望做不同的事情。因此，我们想出了把两个5DS [佳能相机]架在一起 。如果你有一个汇聚点，然后在移动的时候，你会得到这两个图像，有时会聚在一起，又会再次分开。这主要是为了在视觉上延续他的心灵宫殿–试图在视觉上创造新的手法来表达SHERLOCK脑内的世界。
MJW: It was fantastically done. I think the tube [mind palace] scenes, among the fans, were among the favorite moments of the season.
What was it like to shoot the Reichenbach Fall resolution in three different ways? First of all you got back and you had this tremendous crowd— that must have been quite something to manage. Having to do the same thing in three different ways, how did you approach that?
拍摄 THE REICHENBACH FALL 三种解答有什么感想？首先你一回来拍摄就有这个巨大的围观人群 – 这想必相当棘手。你是怎么以三种不同的方式处理同样的情节？
SL: The thing is with the fall what you’ve got is the material that’s already been shot from the end of series two. It’s quite interesting because this has happened in both series. The climax of series one was shot in the swimming pool. The crew for series two then had to go back to the swimming pool to continue that [pool scene] for series two [episode one]. The same for series three. We had to back to Barts again.
In terms of the three different [resolutions to the fall] it’s difficult in a way because we had two days in Barts’s exterior with an enormous amount of work to do. Just in terms of the bungee jump, the air bag and trying to cover it in a way where you can create all these different scenarios. The way it worked in pre-production is everybody knew about everything but the true story. Most people got a script which had a — you know when they’re on the tube?
说到那三个不同的（解释跳楼戏的）情节，在某种程度上是挺困难的，因为我们在医院外面拍摄时间只有两天，但有很多画面得捕捉。光是蹦极跳，气垫床，还有拍别的场景的时候要怎么把气垫床藏起来，就是很多活儿。在前期制作时，除了真实的那个解释版本，大家都知道其他所有的戏。大多数人拿到的脚本，其中有一段 – 你知道当他们在地铁内那部分？
SL: When the bomb’s just about to go off and when he explains what actually happened— that section was missing from the script specifically so it wouldn’t get leaked to anybody. So very few people in production actually had scripts with that bit of information with that in it. In terms of filming it we spent two days shooting those scenes.
Logistically, we were shooting multiple scenes at once. We had to shoot Sherlock from the ground up to Barts’s roof. We did [the slow motion shot of] him on a bungee 1000 fps on a Phantom camera. We’d shoot that and when we were in that position we’d wheel in a scissor lift for him [Benedict Cumberbatch] to jump onto the bag off. He actually did one jump onto the bag but from a lower level and we got the stunt guy to do it from a higher level. Really we were mixing it up and it was exhausting. I think we had four or five cameras. I had talkback which I hate using. The only reason I use it is on big days like that so when I’m talking to the director I’m talking about what we’re going to do next so everybody else on my crew know what we’re going to do. Probably not the most pleasurable of days that you do because the bottom line is that there are so many variables. There’s so much cost going on and involved because of the crane.
从后勤角度来说，我们是在同时拍摄多个场景。我们必须从地面拍摄 SHERLOCK 一直拍到医院的屋顶。我们用 PHANTOM 摄影机 1000 FPS [慢速摄影]拍他蹦极跳。拍完他跳下来之后，我们又推来另一个升降台让他从那里跳到气垫床上。他本人实际上亲自上阵，从比较低的地方拍了一个跳到气垫床上的镜头。之后我们又找了特技人员从更高的楼层再跳一次。这些镜头要凑合起来，真的很累人。我们有四五个摄影机。我用了对讲机，虽然我讨厌使用对讲机。我用它的唯一理由是在这样的大日子，这样我跟导演对话时，其他人都知道我们要做什么。也许不是最愉快的工作日，因为说到底变数实在太多。加上有了吊车以后成本就上去了。
The crowd are just one part of the things you have to deal with. Those kind of days feel like a logistical achievement more than anything else. You get little moments when you get great little shots but you’re trying to do so much in two days I hate to say it but you really are ticking off shots on a list. We used a bit of second unit. All the stuff in the lift with the mask going on was shot second unit by my operator. It’s the sort of thing where you’d normally approach it and say “this would be great if we had seven days to shoot this because we could really take our time. We could be…” it doesn’t happen in television. We very rarely get that sort of time so you really are just trying to tell that story and get the shots.
MJW: This question might go back to the fact that that particular ending was not in the script. I don’t know but a lot of people were a little confused about why there was this cut away from the bomb into the story, into the true story. Do you have any ideas about that particular… Why did the real story come in at that moment in the bomb scene? I think people thought “oh this will be some great confession between John and Sherlock” or some moment and then this cut comes in. I was just wondering if you had any ideas about that.
MJW：这个问题得回到那没有在剧本里面的结局。很多人都觉得，突然从列车那一幕切换到SHERLOCK 讲解他逃遁那一幕非常突兀。你对那有什么看法？真正的解说为什么得在拆解炸弹那一刻跳到 SHERLOCK 的解说？因为以故事流程来看，大多数人都会以为 SHERLOCK 和 JOHN 会有类似告白的一幕，但突然就切到另一幕了。我想知道你的看法。
SL: I don’t really you know. I know exactly what you’re coming from and where other people are coming from because I remember when I thought about it myself it always feels slightly disjointed that you go into Sherlock’s confession but I just put it down to structure, the way they structured the script. I guess it didn’t really stand out to me because from the beginning I’m so often looking at a script that had that missing. That when I actually got it it felt very different. Anyway. Maybe it’s a bit of trait of that but I don’t think I’ve got any opinion really on why it’s like that.
SL：我真的没那么清楚。我很明白你们为什么会有这个问题，因为我记得当时我自己也觉得那段突然进入 SHERLOCK 的表白，故事稍微有点脱节。但我只是把它归为结构的问题，他们就是这么写剧本的。我想我并没有特别注意到这一点，因为从一开始，我经常在看的脚本都缺了那一段。当我真正得到完整的脚本时，感觉非常不同。总之，也许这是其中一点原因，但我真的不知道那幕戏到底为什么会是那样。
MJW: So what are your favorite moments? I mean if you have them I know some people don’t like to rank things but do you have particular moments in Sherlock that you’re really proud of, particular scenes that stand out to you?
SL: I think in terms of series one I think I liked them walking down the staircase, going out and getting into the cab, the game is on— that bit. I really like the scene with Benedict where he’s talking to the prisoner. Is that The Great Game?
SL：我认为在第一季里，我喜欢他们从楼梯走下楼，然后进入计程车，”游戏开始了。“–就是那部分。 我也很喜欢 BENEDICT 和囚犯谈话那场。那是 THE GREAT GAME 里吗？
MJW: Yes— the Belarus scene.
SL: Yes. I like that one for a lot of reasons. For me it’s a great piece of writing by Mark [Gatiss]. I like the correction of the grammar. It works very well. I think the other guy [Matthew Needham playing Mr. Berwick] is brilliant in it as well as Benedict. It was night when we shot that. I had to light it for day. It was a very tricky location. It was freezing but it’s something that I really like.
SL：是的。我喜欢它有很多原因。在我看来那是MARK GATISS 所写的精彩一幕。我喜欢看 SHERLOCK 修改语法。非常有效果。我觉得另一位演员 （MATTHEW NEEDHAM 饰 MR BERWICK）跟 BENEDICT 一样生动。我们拍摄的时候是晚上，所以我得用灯光照得让它看起来像白天。这是一个非常棘手的外景地点。那天很冷，但拍出来的成果我很喜欢。
Lighting wise, I like the studio. I like 221B. Especially over series one. When you watch that pilot and you look at the set, it looks like a set. I have this real problem with sets. I can’t stand looking at shows going “they’re on a set.” You know for me the way I light is I like to use a big source off of the set. I like to bring in onto the set and I like it to then radiate like what real light does. I spend my life looking at the sun entering a room and bouncing off of something in the room and that’s what I wanted to do with 221B. I didn’t want to create an environment like the Robert Downey, Jr. films where it’s really stylized. I just wanted to create an environment that people believed. That people believed there is a road outside and there was life going on outside that window.
照明方面，我喜欢摄影棚。我喜欢221B，特别是第一季的时候。你看原版时，你看着那布景，就知道那是搭出来的布景。我就是受不了布景的这一点。我无法忍受看着节目时，感觉说：“那布景好假。”我打光会尽量仿自然光源。我走进室内会观察学习阳光如何照亮房间、如何反弹，这就是我想要带给观众的221B。我并不想营造一个过度风格化的场景，不是像 ROBER DOWNEY JR 那系列电影那样。我只是想创造一种有生活气息的环境。观众可以相信窗外有条道路，有平常人过着日常生活。
MJW: laughing. When I saw the set I was actually a little bit crushed. It took me a little bit to wrap my head around it because it is so real to me — to see when Arwel [Wyn Jones] was putting the set going up [on twitter] it was — “Oh! (clasps heart) It is! It is fake.”
MJW：（笑）我第一次看到布景后台照时感到十分失望，因为印像中那是一个真实的地方。看到 ARWEL WYN JONES 在 TWITTER 上载安置布景的情况时，会失望的想说：”啊，那是假的。“
SL: I’m proud of that.
There are lots of moments. It’s funny because I hadn’t actually seen series one for awhile and then we watched it for the new series three and I watched series two as well. It’s quite interesting watching series two not having worked on it. I really liked A Scandal in Belgravia. The Hounds of Baskerville didn’t work for me. The Reichenbach Fall I actually thought… I really liked. I thought it was a really interesting energetic … I actually thought it was a quite good homage to what we did in series one. It’s weird because Toby [Haynes] who directed it never came back.
其实有很多有趣的时刻。我有一段时间没看第一季了，然后为了拍第三季我们又连第二季一起看了一遍。我没有在第二季里当摄影指导，观看时就感觉挺有意思的。我很喜欢 A SCANDAL IN BELGRAVIA。THE HOUND OF BASKERVILLE 对我来说普普通通。我真的很喜欢 THE REICHENBACH FALL，拍得非常充满活力。感觉上是对第一季表达敬意。说起来挺奇怪的，拍这一集的导演 TOBY HAYNES 后来再没有回来导演后面的剧集。
It’s like with series three and I see the third one. You look at what somebody else would do and you go “I wouldn’t have done that” or “I would have done that.” Neville [Kidd, DP on His Last Vow] did some interesting things. He did things different to what I would do. One of the things I think about series three is that I think Nick Hurran, the director [of His Last Vow], was trying to get back to some of that and also Steven [Moffat] with the writing was trying to get back to the “this is what Sherlock does” kind of thing. With the whole thing about… when [Mary] shot [Sherlock] it’s this is how he sees the world, how Sherlock sees the world which I think on ep one and ep two you didn’t get as much. If there were ten episodes and you spent an episode on them getting back together and an episode on them getting married then it’s not a problem. But when you’ve only got three episodes and two episodes are spent basically doing a bit of housekeeping it’s interesting.
像我看第三季的最后一集，看看别人会怎么做，我会想着“我就不会那样做”或“我会那样做”。HIS LAST VOW 的 摄影指导 NEVILLE KIDD 拍摄手法挺有意思的，他和我的拍法非常不同。我想在第三季里， NICK HURRAN （THE LAST VOW 的导演）还有编剧 STEVEN MOFFAT 尝试找回“这很有SHERLOCK的风格”的那种感觉。比如 MARY 开枪那一段，你可以看出他们想捕捉SHERLOCK 的世界观，这是第一、第二集里面没有的东西。如果有十集，你用了一两集拍他们重新团聚、拍婚礼，那都不是一个问题。但是，当你只有了三集，还把两集基本都都花在梳理之前的未完的剧情，那确实值得琢磨。
I’m very good friends with Mark Gatiss…
我与 MARK GATISS 是很好的朋友…
MJW (interrupts with fannish enthusiasm): The Tractate Middoth was so cool!
MJW（掩饰不住内心狂热地插话）：THE TRACTATE MIDDOTH 酷毙了！
SL: Thank you. I mean Mark’s the one person out of everybody I’ve forged a very good friendship with from Sherlock. He’s one of the most charming men that I’ve ever met. He’s so generous and enormously talented. He’s one of those people that you’re really pleased to see every day. He’s just an all around great guy. I think we’re hoping that after The Tractate Middoth— that was his directorial debut and he asked me when we were shooting Sherlock whether I would do it and I said I’d love to. But he’s got other things planned so I think hopefully bigger and better things. He wants to actually do a horror movie at some point.
SL：谢谢。MARK 是我从拍摄 SHERLOCK 这份工作中获得的一个好朋友。他是我见过的最有魅力的男人之一。他是如此大方、才华横溢。他是那种会让你天天见到很高兴的人。他就是这么一个什么都棒的家伙。我们希望在他的导演处女作 THE TRACTATE MIDDOTH之后– 当我们拍摄 SHERLOCK 的时候，他问我能不能做他的摄影指导，我说我愿意–他在计划做其他的东西，我希望会是更大、更好的东西。他想有朝一日拍一部恐怖电影。
MJW: Oh that would be perfect. I would really love to see that.
SL: We’re both big fans of the Hammer House of Horror, that sort of thing, so we share a passion for that — well a lot of The Tractate Middoth— that real old fashioned Tales from the Crypt— perfect. It’s just great.
SL：我们都喜欢 HAMMER HOUSE OF HORROR 那风格的恐怖片，所以我们有共同的热情。还有像 TALES FROM THE CRYPT那种老派恐怖片，THE TRACTATE MIDDOTH 就有那种感觉，十分完美。
MJW: One of the scenes most beloved by fans from the third season is the pub crawl— drunk Sherlock. Can you tell me a little bit about those scenes? Do you hear the soundtrack before hand? Did you know that it would be a dubstep audio track? Did you have any idea?
MJW：粉丝们都很喜欢第三季里 SHERLOCK 和 JOHN 串酒吧的戏，还有喝醉的 SHERLOCK。你能不能分享一些有关这一段的故事？在开拍之前，你已经听了配乐吗？你之前知道会有 DUBSTEP 配乐吗？有这种预感吗？
SL: I had a bit of an idea. I mean we sort of talked about it but the concept of the pub crawl came out of … Colm [McCarthy] the director and myself talked about it a lot and we talked about this idea of them getting more and more drunk and that narrative becoming part of the way that we shoot it so… It’s all shot on the shift and tilt lenses. A shift and tilt lens is like an old-fashioned bellows lens and what it allows you to do is rather than the focus being front to back it tends to be on the side of the frame. They’re really annoying to shoot with because when you’re shooting actors it’s very difficult to keep things sharp but it was absolutely perfect for what we wanted to do. We had two days. One day in the location, which were all the pubs, I have to say there is miles more footage of that that they cut.
SL：我之前知道一点。唔，我们有讨论，但他们去酒吧什么的是我和导演 COLM MCCARTHY 谈论了很多的一个想法，我们想拍他们越来越醉，然后这个过程就融入了我们的拍摄手法。那场戏都是用镜头移位和倾斜来拍的。那种镜头就像一个老式的伸缩镜头，它允许你把镜头焦点放在框架的一侧，而不像平常一样把焦点摆在中间。用它们来拍摄真的很麻烦，因为你拍演员的时候很难拍清晰。但在那一段里，它们跟故事需求是绝配。我们有两天时间来拍。第一天，我们拍外景，也就是所有的酒吧。我不得不说有好多好多画面没被用上。
MJW: Please tell the powers that be that we want it! We Sherlock fans want it desperately!
SL: When I saw the show I was actually quite disappointed because we spent a whole day. We went to like twelve pubs and bars and we shot all these little scenes of them getting more and more and more drunk. And I think only four of them ended up in the film. Some of them were absolutely amazing.
MJW: Can you tell us about any of them? Maybe one?
SL: I don’t know… it was a great day because it was a night shoot and we ended up starting at four in the afternoon so it was literally like being on their stag do without the pleasure of being able to drink. We’d go from bar to bar and we’d literally do one or two shots then we’d move to the next bar. I think what’s good about it is in terms of the process you can make it up as you go along. It was a very open experience to do. It’s like when we go up to the flat where he’s sick; by the time we’d got to that point we’d completely dismissed any idea of what was normal. It was this idea of being braver and braver where it was almost out of focus. I can remember Sue [Vertue] the producer turning about and going “I’m really concerned about this. I think we need to do one with a normal lens” and we were all like “no.”
SL ：我不知道……那天很棒，因为我们是在晚上拍摄，大概从下午四点开始，感觉就像我们参加了他们的单身派对，但少了能喝酒的乐趣。我们一个个酒吧跑，每一个地点里头就拍一两个镜头，然后我们会移动到下一个吧。我认为这样的过程让我们拥有很大的创意空间，可以自由发挥。当我们回到公寓的时候，就是他们醉倒那段，我们已经完全驳回了什么是正常的拍摄法。我们想拍的大胆点，再大胆点，到最后几乎全部失焦。我还记得制作人 SUE VERTUE 说：“我真的很担心这个。我认为我们得用正常镜头拍一遍”，我们都拒绝了。
The problem is that you do one on the normal lens and what they’ll do is they’ll force you to use it in the end. You have to almost edit in-camera sometimes by limiting what you do and that way that gets on screen. The two of them were both just… I have a great working relationship with Benedict and Martin but I think that night I was in pain through laughing so much. Martin he’s just like… I mean the pair of them… One of my favorite moments is when they’re back at 221B with Alice and he falls asleep but he says “I’m being rude” like this (imitates Benedict playing Sherlock) It was finally a bit difficult to work at the time because it was so funny.
MJW: Was so much of it improv?
SL: A lot of it was, yeah. A lot of it was improvised. I mean you know we had a base idea of what we were doing but a lot of it was improvised. It was very fluid. Them at the bottom of the stairs and them falling down was completely improvised. That happened on the first take.
SL：很多都是。大部分都是即兴的。我是说我们有一个基本的概念，但很多是即兴发挥。非常变化多端。他们在楼梯的底部那儿跌倒完全是即兴。我们第一个 TAKE 就拍下了。
MJW: Was the Rizla game with the names…?
SL: That was scripted but in terms of what they were saying it wasn’t all scripted you know.
MJW: Martin in particular was fantastic in that scene.
SL: When you get people of Benedict and Martin’s calibre of actor if you put them in that situation they end up producing something better than you could ever have imagined. It’s one of the reasons we shoot two cameras on them all the time because you want to capture it straight away. If you think about those scenes you want to be able to shoot those scenes and cross-shoot them so you get that dynamic. You don’t want to have to do that “actually that was a great moment when you did that Martin, can you do it again?” Because nine times out of ten Martin will say “what did I do?” because he won’t be aware really of what he did because he’s just in character and doing stuff. What you want to try and do in those situations is capture that moment and never feel like you didn’t get it.
SL：当你有 BENEDICT 与 MARTIN这么优秀的演员，你给他们安排个场景，他们就能展现出你想都想不到的精彩表演。这是我们使用两个摄像机的原因之一，因为你想当即就拍下来。你要是想拍那些场景，你会想要能同时拍到他们两个。你不可能说：“MARTIN, 刚刚那一段挺不错，你能不能重来一次？” 因为十之八九 MARTIN 会说：“我做了什么？”。因为他们是以角色的心态来应对适才的状况，所做的动作表情不一定是有意识的。身为摄影指导，我得捕捉那最自然的一刻，而不是因为没准备而错过这样的镜头。
MJW: About the drunk part, the scenes with the overlays that say “deaded” and “sitty thing”, do you have anything to do with that?
SL: No, that’s all post [production]. That will be Charlie [Philips], the editor [on The Empty Hearse or Mark Davis, the editor on The Sign of Three] — that would be Colm [McCarthy, the director of The Sign of Three] and the editor carrying up with that in the edit suite. The idea of the text on screen from the first series— it originally came around from the fact that we had so much exposition to get on screen and so many shots of texts, of phones, but it that it was going to be so mind-numbingly boring shooting all of these cutaways. The problem is that you’ve got to hold the shot as long as— if you’ve got a text that’s three sentences long you’ve got to hold the shot long enough for somebody to read it which is very painful. At least by putting text on the screen you then allow a scene to continue and then have some text on the screen. I don’t think we pioneered it. I think it had been done before it’s just we used it to great effect. I’m a great believer that nothing is original. We’re all plagiarists at the end of the day. It’s all been done before at some point you just combine it in a different way.
SL ：没有，这是后期制作的点子。那是编辑 CHARLIE PHILIPS（THE EMPTY HEARSE编辑，或 MARK DAVIS， THE SIGN OF THREE编辑）还有导演 COLM MCCARTHY在编辑室里的创意。屏幕上打文字的想法来自第一季。原本是因为有这么多的论述得放上屏幕，再加上手机的镜头，如果这些都给镜头的话，那要无聊死了。问题是，如果画面上有字幕，你一定要给观众足够时间阅读。你要是有三行字的短信，你得留出那么多时间让别人读完，那实在是太痛苦了。把字幕打在屏幕上的话，至少你可以接着拍你的场景而不必停顿太久。我不认为这是我们首创的手法，只是我们用来比较有效果。我相信没有什么是原创。某种意义而言我们都是剽窃者。所有的点子都早被用过了，关键是你怎么有创意的组合使用。
MJW: This comes back to the issue of framing and your background in stills photography and every frame of the show is just… What do you think about the fans having access to every single frame [of Sherlock] and remixing it, creating new animations out of it? I mean this is basically what the whole fandom is based on— is remixing your work. What do you think of that?
MJW：这个问题还要回到取景方式以及你的摄影背景。这部戏每个镜头 — 粉丝们利用你的镜头，重新编排诠释故事，你对此有何看法？我是说，这几乎就是整个粉丝圈的基础–重新编排你的作品。你是怎么想的？
SL: Honestly I think they can do whatever they like with it. It’s not a piece of art that can’t be played around with. I think if somebody gets enjoyment out of taking something and then manipulating it and then doing something else with it and if it gives people…if people are interested in doing that then I have no problem with that at all. I’m flattered. That’s all I can say. I’m flattered that people find it interesting enough to do that.
MJW: I would go so far as to say that the foundation of what made the fandom build and build and build is having that kind of quality of stuff to work with. I saw an interview with Moffat and Gatiss talking about how they weren’t so sure they had a heartthrob in Benedict Cumberbatch. It was maybe a bit of a surprise to them? But your work had a lot to do with that. Have you thought about that before? The lighting, the framing?
MJW：我敢说，能让粉丝那么积极参与戏剧的重大因素是因为有那么美妙的画面。我看到一个 MOFFAT 和 GATISS 的访谈，他们说曾怀疑 BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH 能否成为迷人偶像。有这么多人支持 BENEDICT 可能让他们很惊讶。但老实说，他成为偶像应该归功于你。你有想过是为什么吗？到底是灯光还是取景？
SL: I’ve never thought of it in a direct way but yes, obviously I mean I… it’s quite interesting because Benedict is very easy to light. Benedict’s got such an angular face that you can pretty much throw a light at it and he looks good (not that I do but) he’s got a very interesting face in terms of photography. Martin [Freeman], on the other hand, he’s got a great face but Martin takes a lot of care to make Martin look good and I spend a lot of time making Martin…you know I treat all my actors the same and I spend a lot of time trying to make them look as good as I can. Out of the two of them I spend more time on Martin than I do Benedict. But that’s just me doing my job at the end of the day. In terms of the series and in terms of the actors I’m going to make them look as good as I can.
SL：我从来没有直接想到这一点，但肯定的，很明显，我的意思是我……这相当有趣，因为BENEDICT很好打光。他的脸棱角分明，你只要随便打个光，他都看起来不错（当然我没这么随便做）。从摄影的角度来看，他有一张充满趣味的脸。另一方面，MARTIN有一张非常好看的脸，但让 MARTIN FREEMAN 看起来上镜，比较花时间。我对所有演员一样，花大量的时间试图让他们看起来最上镜。以他们两人来说，我花更多的时间在MARTIN身上。但是，这只是我工作本分。为了剧集也为了演员，我当然想让演员在镜头前呈现最佳姿态。
When Martin got his BAFTA for best supporting actor he thanked me in his speech. I got like 20 text messages from people that were there going “Martin just name checked you in his acceptance speech” which is kind of unheard of. I was kind of taken aback at the time and I thought… It’s the kind of guy that Martin is that he did that. I was very grateful for Martin to actually recognize what I’d done.
当MARTIN 得到了他的英国影艺学院最佳男配角奖（BAFTA），他在致词里感谢了我。我收到20多条简讯，告诉我 MARTIN 在台上指名道姓感谢我，这是通常不会发生的事。当时我有点意外，我想…MARTIN 就是会做出这种事的人。我十分感激他对我工作的认可。
When I came back to do series three I had an embrace with both Martin and Benedict on separate occasions when they came back where they both said they were incredibly pleased to see me again. What was really, really nice for me is that I worked on series three with the same two gentlemen that I worked with on series one. I mean they’ve gone like that (makes a gesture upwards indicating their rising stars) in that time but they’re still the same guys which shows a) how professional they are but also b) what great people they are.
当我回来拍第三季时，我曾与MARTIN 和 BENEDICT 在不同的场合拥抱。他们都表示他们非常高兴再见到我。对我来说，第三季里我能和拍第一季时一样，再次和这两位先生合作真的是太好了。我的意思是他们现在的事业如日中天，但他们没有摆架子，显示了他们有多专业，而且是多么好的人。
MJW: I was wondering what you could tell me about working on The Tractate Middoth with Gatiss and the difference between working with him on Sherlock in that role and then working with him as a director.
MJW：我想知道你能不能告诉我，你和作为导演的GATISS 合作拍 THE TRACTATE MIDDOTH，以及和他一起拍SHERLOCK时的合作之间有什么不同。
SL: I’ve always worked with Mark as a writer and an executive producer and an actor so Mark is always around on set a lot on his episodes of Sherlock. He tends to be on the set every day in a writer-producer role and then when Mark acts he acts. I think the difference working with Mark on Tractate was that he wrote the adaptation and it’s also his production company and he’s also directing it. He wasn’t nervous. It was obviously a new experience for him, It was something he hadn’t done before and it was interesting to work with Mark in that way where when you work with directors that have done quite a few shows before they’ve grown up with a style of the way they work. Mark knows what he likes. He knows what he wants. I think the experience of being a director was a new experience for him. I think it will be different the next time we work together. It’s almost like he’s passed the test and he can go “right, I can relax now and get on with it.” Not that he wasn’t relaxed but somebody on their first job in a particular role, especially as a director… It was a wonderful shoot.
SL ：我与 MARK 合作的时候，他身兼多职：剧作、执行制片人、演员等等，所以拍摄 SHERLOCK 的时候他通常都在场。平常在幕后他是剧作兼执行制片人，镜头前他就化身演员。我觉得与 MARK 在 TRACTATE 工作的差异是他负责的东西比较多，剧本是他改编的，制作公司也是他的，而且他也当导演。他一点也不紧张。这显然对他来说是全新的体验，这是一件他以前从没做过的事，所以与 MARK 一起经历这个体验挺有意思的，因为就是等于看着他如何成长、如何摄取经验、如何发掘自己的风格。 MARK 知道他喜欢什么。他知道他想要什么。我觉得做导演对他来说是一个全新的体验。我认为这将在未来大家一起合作的时候会有不同。这几乎就像他通过了测试，他可以说：“好，我现在可以放松了。” 这并不是说他这次不轻松，但以他第一次做导演来说……这是一个美好的经验。
Susie Liggat who produced it, who also produced the second episode of Sherlock, series three— wonderful lady. One of the things Mark is a great believer in is that it doesn’t need to be painful when you do a production. You don’t have to shout at people, you don’t have to have arguments, that it should be a pleasurable experience. Not all jobs are pleasurable experiences. A lot of the time they’re stressful, they’re kind of difficult. There’s a lot of politics. I think one of the things that Mark is a great advocate of is a job where you’re allowed to be creative and you don’t have to worry about anything else. That’s what I like about working with Mark. It’s about the creativity. The housekeeping is kept away from the set and dealt with elsewhere and you’re dealing with telling the story. Which is what you should be doing.
制作人 SUSIE LIGGAT （同时也是 SHERLOCK 第三季第二集的制作人）是一位非常好的女士。MARK 相信拍片子并不需要是痛苦的。你不必喊人，你不必吵架，它应该是一个愉快的经验。并非所有的工作都是愉快的经历。很多时候，它们给人的压力很大，会非常棘手。会很多勾心斗角。我认为 MARK 倡导的是让你有创造的空间，而不必担心其他事。这就是我喜欢和 MARK 合作的原因。这是关于创造空间。所有琐事都在远离摄影棚的地方解决，你只负责讲故事。这就是你应该做的。
MJW: One of the things which struck me-— which is strange-— but the dust scenes. The dust scenes at 221B when Mrs. Hudson opens the windows for the first time and then the dust in the library [in The Tractate Middoth]. Is that a trope that’s part of your bag of tricks? How did you approach the scenes differently? Because they’re very, very different kinds of moods.
MJW：给我留下深刻印象的事情之一–听起来有点奇怪–就是灰尘的场景：在221B 时，哈德森太太第一次打开窗口的灰尘镜头，然后是在 THE TRACTATE MIDDOTH 图书馆里头的灰尘。那是一个你偏爱的象征吗？你是怎么阐释这两个不同的场景？因为他们有非常，非常不同的氛围。
SL: Some DPs use a lot of atmos, a lot of smoke in the air so you see the shafts of light. I use it now and again. I tend to think of it as a bit theatrical a lot of the time. Obviously the point in Sherlock is that the room has been trapped for two years so you’re opening it up and it’s dusty. I am kind of fascinated by dust and the way it reacts with the light. I’ve spent some time shooting dust at high speed just on macros like dust particles floating around. You can watch them for hours. It’s like watching water moving around and it’s got such an organic motion to it. And again it’s that kind of detail that if you walked into that room for real, if it was a real room and the sun was really coming through and you moved the curtains and the dust then moved up into the air, the motes…you probably would look at them and you’d be noticing the fact that this dust is moving around. On Tractate it was an idea that it was this… how do you tell that there is this thing there? How do you create this idea that there is this ethereal being there. You know, let’s chuck a load of dust in the air. (laughs)
SL ：有些摄影指导用大量的烟雾，让观众看得到光线。我有时候会这么做。我认为这方法是有点太戏剧化了。显然，SHERLOCK那场戏的重点是，房间里已经被关了两年，你打开窗口，一定会有灰尘。我对灰尘与它和光线之间的关系很有兴趣。我花了一些时间用高速摄像机拍摄灰尘在气流里漂浮，能看几个小时。这就像看着水流动一般，是一种自然的动作。而这又是那种生活里的细节。如果那是一个真正的房间，太阳照射进来，你移动窗帘，一定会看到尘埃飘在那阳光里头……你可能会注视这现象。在TRACTATE 里这是一个想法，就是说你怎么展现那里有人？你怎么表示有这个灵魂在那里? 往空中丢一把灰尘就好了。 （笑）
MJW: (laughing) It worked!
SL: Yeah! You’re experimenting but it’s like his [William Garrett, the lead character’s] friend says (in Tractate) “trick of the light.” This idea that something is different and there’s a smell. There’s a texture and it’s adding that something else that you can’t… I mean quite often a director will say to me “I want to make it feel different. How do I make it feel different?” And you go well we could shoot it from a different way, we could change the lighting, we do do this but quite often they’re drastic changes. Ideally what I try and look for is subtle changes that make the audience go-— there’s something different here. Obviously on something like Tractate you play up with it and you make a big deal of it. Again it’s just trying to tell the story, trying to tell the story visually, or helping tell the story visually.
SL：是啊！你是在尝试中，但如他 （WILLIAM GARRETT, 主角）的朋友（在Tractate中）说：“这是光的把戏。” 我们想展现的是这东西有所不同，闻起来不一样。它有它的质地，有一种不可言喻的… 我的意思是经常导演会对我说：“我想让它感觉不同。我怎么让它感觉有所不同？“你可以说，我们可以用不同的方式拍摄，可以改变照明。我们确实这样做过，但很多时候带来的都是很大的变化。理想的情况我想去寻找很微妙的变化，让观众想：“诶，这里有点不对劲。” 显然，在这上面 TRACTATE 比较夸大。它只是想呈现故事，试图在视觉上讲故事，或帮助故事的视觉效果。
MJW: You’ve shot London in so many different ways and for so many different projects. I’m wondering if you could talk about that. For example in The Blind Banker looks one particular way— the lenses — I don’t know anything about the technical side of it but it’s very dreamy, in Hunted it’s stark. Could you talk a little bit about filming in London and how you approach it differently for different projects?
MJW：你用这么多不同的方式为这么多不同的制作拍摄伦敦。我想知道，你能不能谈谈这一点。例如在 THE BLIND BANKER 里头有一种 – 我不知道关于它的技术相关语，但它非常梦幻，在 HUNTED 里头又很鲜明。请问在伦敦拍摄，你怎么为不同的制作找到不同的拍摄方式？
SL: London is-— well I’ve never had the privilege of shooting in New York but it’s probably the same -— it’s that London’s got so many different sides to it. It’s like crystal that you turn and you get little chinks and little bits and different parts of it every time you look at it. Depending on what the show is that I’m doing you know I’m the kind of person that’s seen so many different sides of London whether that’s on a personal level or whether that’s on a work level. I have a love-hate relationship with London. I don’t live in London. I wouldn’t want to live in London. I work quite a lot in London but I don’t want to live there because it’s kind of an impersonal place. Like New York in the sense that everybody’s doing this (head down looking forward) all the time and nobody has time for anybody else. I find that quite difficult to deal with emotionally as a person.
SL ：伦敦是 – 唔，我还没有机会在纽约拍摄，但它可能是相同的 – 那就是伦敦有这么多不同的面貌。这就像你把玩水晶，你每次都能看到它不同部分的面貌。看看我做过的各种剧集，你就知道我在私人和工作上都对伦敦有众多层面的认识。我对伦敦爱恨交加。我不住在伦敦。我不想住在伦敦。我很多时候在伦敦工作，但我不想生活在那里，因为它是一个冷漠的地方，像纽约，每个人都在这样（低着头往前看），没有人有时间在乎其他人。我觉得人要从感情上接受这个太难了。
I’ve been going to London since I was a young boy. My first experience of London was the big commercial parts like the Tower Bridge and then obviously as I’ve gotten older I’ve seen London more in terms-— on a personal level, living there for a short time and also in terms of working there and seeing different parts of it. London looks like lots of different things. It’s like that scene in Hunted where we were in that brand new office with all the floors and the glass. It was not dissimilar to the scene we had when the businessman got poisoned in Sherlock. [The Blind Banker] In fact it reminded me very much of that. It was that stark neutrality that you get. And you can go to other places in London like where we shot Sherlock — whether it’s underground. You get to see all these different things but you get to see them… I only ever try to look at them in terms of the story.
我从小就已经常去伦敦。我对伦敦的第一个体验是那些非常商业化的部分，比如伦敦塔桥。很明显在长大后我见过的伦敦更私人，因为我在那里生活了一小段时间，还有在那里工作，看到了它的不同部分。伦敦有很多不同的面貌。这就像那在 HUNTED 那一幕 ，在那个全新的办公室。这跟在 SHERLOCK 里面商人中毒那一幕类似 （THE BLIND BANKER）。伦敦拥有这种鲜明的中立性。你也可以去伦敦其他地方，我们拍 SHERLOCK – 无论是在地上或地底下。你能看到所有这些不同的东西，但你能看到… 我只能尝试从故事的角度来看地点。
When I read a script, the first time I try to read it just in terms of the story like I was reading a book. I try not to over think about it technically in terms of how I would do that, how I would do that and I think that’s really important because the first time I read it I want to engage with it as you would as a viewer or as a person, as a human being. Then I go back and read it again and I start thinking about how I would do things creatively and technically.
And I think that’s the same with London. If we have an environment that we look at I think how does it relate to the story? How do I tie it into the story? And it’s not always as straight forward as that because it’s down to logistics for instance that building we shot in in Hunted. We had it for four hours. You have to turn up there— you can’t really light it because it’s twenty six floors up. You kinda go “right. what can we do with this space?” As I said earlier that’s often your best choice is having a situation where you have to do something, that you haven’t got the luxuries of having all the toys and the toolkit to do it with. It focuses your point of view about something. It’s strange because although I think about these things — it’s like framing. I talk about it like driving a car. When I operate a camera I don’t think about where I’m going to put the frame I just do it. It’s the same as when I get in the car. I don’t think how I work the accelerator and the clutch and the brake. Your feet do that.
我认为这跟伦敦是相同的。如果我们来看一个环境，我会考虑它是如何涉及到故事？我怎么让它跟故事相辅相成？很多时候事情并不简单，因为得考虑到后勤。譬如我们用来拍 HUNTED 的那栋楼。我们有四个小时来完成我们的拍摄。你在那里，打不了什么灯，因为它在26层楼。你得想，在这个空间里，我们能做些什么？ 正如我刚才说，往往你最好的选择是在没有你所有的玩具和工具的情况下还得必须完成某件事情时作出的。你会更专注于达成你的目标。这有点奇怪，因为虽然我会去思考这些事情 — 和取景一样，我谈论这些的时候就像在谈论开车一样。当我操作一个相机，我不会去想画面结构，我就只是放手去做。这跟我开车一样。我不会去想怎么踩油门、离合器、刹车怎么用。你的脚自动会处理。
That’s a good thing. It becomes an instinctive thing that actually what you’re doing is you’re not going “I should be doing this because of this” you’re doing it as an automated response that you’ve developed which goes back to what I was saying about the human condition in story telling is that you’re reacting emotionally to an environment. Your emotional reaction to that environment is something, even though you’re not thinking about it, is something that you’re then relating in the way you shoot it, the way that you frame it. For me all the best painters, photographers, cinematographers, we look at all those examples of that work— there’s an emotional attachment there.
There’s a war photographer, Don McCullin, who did Biafra and Cambodia— a very celebrated war photographer whose exhibition I saw when I was about seventeen when I was at college. It was shots of starving Cambodian children, six by four foot prints. Amazing experiences but you look at these pictures and you see there’s something in every single one of them and I bought his book. It’s a great book to read. It’s called Unreasonable Behaviour. In the book he was interviewed by an American journalist. He had a Leica, which is quite famous, he was shot and the Leica took the bullet— saved his life. But the journalist said to him “oh you use Leica cameras— the best cameras you can get. Do you think that makes you a better photographer?” He said “I can take a picture with a pinhole camera. The result would be exactly the same as what I would take with a Leica. It’s just the quality would be different. It’s what you see with your eye and feel with your heart.” I think that’s absolutely true.
我17 岁上大学的时候去看了一个非常著名的战地摄影师（DON MCCULLIN ，驻比夫拉和柬埔寨）的展览。他拍的是饥饿的柬埔寨儿童，照片有六乘四英尺大小。惊人的经验，但是你看看那些图片，你会看到里头每一张都有莫名的情感。我买了他的书，真的很棒。书名叫 UNREASONABLE BEHAVIOUR。在这本书中，有一名美国记者采访他。他用的是徕卡相机。这相机很有名，因为有一次有人向他开枪，徕卡挡下子弹救了他的命。记者对他说： “哦，你用徕卡相机，用最好的相机是否使你成为一个更好的摄影师？ “他说：”我可以用针孔相机拍照。其结果是完全一样的，我会选用徕卡，只是因为画质会有所不同。关键的东西都是你用双眼看到、用心去体会的。” 我认为这绝对是正确的。
The way that I work is that I relate to a situation with the way that I feel about it with my eye and my heart and that drives me to do what I do. I think that emotion is what’s important because that emotion -— you can’t quantify it but it’s what you might see and what you might like about my work is driven by that. It’s because I care about what I see and it affects me in a certain way.
MJW: It gives a depth to it… To be able to go back again and again and again. Obviously I’ve seen Sherlock hundreds of times by now probably but it makes it so compelling, that element. I was going to ask you about other influences. Do you ever consciously try to mimic a particular photograph or do you find yourself kind of absorbing that, or morphing that for yourself?
MJW：它有一种深度，能够让人回头一再观赏。因为有那种元素，我可能看了 SHERLOCK 几百次了。我要问问你所受到的其他影响。你是否有意识地试图模仿一个特定的照片，或者会下意识的去重新诠释？
SL: I don’t actually find myself trying to copy anything. In terms of influences I’d say that Crewdson has probably had the most dramatic influence on me in terms of you could probably look at Crewdson’s work and then look at my work and see that there’s a similarity.
SL：我倒不觉得自己试图复制任何东西。在影响方面我想说，CREWDSON 可能对我最有影响，你可以比较 CREWDSON 和我的作品，应该会看到有相似性。
MJW: I’ve pulled side-by-side pictures to look at them.
SL: So Crewdson’s had a great influence but it’s never been a kind of… what I love about Crewdson’s work is that again there is this scale and this color and there’s everything. They’re paintings. I tend to be drawn to darker things you know dark in terms of contrast but also dark as in terms of subject. I find it more interesting. The kind of underbelly. There’s something I love about Crewdson’s work which is that there’s something not quite… it always feels slightly on edge. There’s something not quite right about it. I think it’s really interesting the idea that you… it’s about being as subtle as possible. And I think what Crewdson does so well is that he does lots of really dramatic things but he does them very subtly. So what you’re actually getting and the fact that he creates this frame and does the shot and you look at it.
SL：所以 CREWDSON 的确有很大的影响，但它从来就不是一种…我喜欢 CREWDSON 的作品是因为有这样的规模颜色。它们可以被当成画作。我被黑暗的那一面吸引，不单是作为颜色对比，也作为一种题材。我觉得这样更有趣。我喜欢 CREWDSON 的作品的一点是其中有点…他的作品总是非常尖锐。让人觉得有点不安。这种微妙的不对劲非常吸引人。我觉得 CREWDSON 能够把戏剧性的事情用很巧妙的手法带出，让观众自己体会那种不安。
A lot of time when you start off in terms of cinematography or photography… when I first started I wouldn’t put a light somewhere unless I thought it was justified because if you want your lighting to look real then really it should only come in the direction the sun comes in. Well you soon learn that if you do that you’re on a hiding to nothing because it’s very difficult to do that. What you tend to do is you tend to stick to that rule but then you bend it slightly which is what Crewdson does which is if you want to have a different color in the frame you can create different color in the frame. You don’t necessarily need to justify it. It can be there for an aesthetic reason. It can be there for all sorts of reasons. What you’re actually doing is you’re creating different things in the frame because you have the ability to do that. Visually Crewdson’s been a very big influence on me.
很多时候你刚开始摄像或摄影时……当我第一次开始，我不会把光放在不合理的地方，因为如果你想让你的光线看起来真实，那么它就得模仿阳光的方向。你很快就会知道，你这样做是没意思的，因为很难做到这一点。你会尽量守着这规则，但偶尔你越矩，这就是 CREWDSON 做的，如果你想在画面里有一个不同的颜色你得自己加上去。你不一定需要解释它的存在。它可以是出于审美的原因。它可以因为各种原因存在。你要做的是去创造一个画面，因为你有这个能力。在视觉方面CREWDSON 一直对我有非常大的影响。
In terms of other people’s work — somebody asked me the other day to name cinematographers that I admire and Roger Deakins is a cinematographer that I have a great admiration for. Janusz Kaminski— I think some of Janusz’s work is absolutely amazing, the level of his work with [Steven] Spielberg… One of my favorite Kaminski films is The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. Have you seen it?
说到其他人的作品 — 有人几天前问我，我钦佩的摄影师有哪几位。ROGER DEAKINS 是一个。JANUSZ KAMINSKI 的作品绝对是惊人的，他与 STEVEN SPIELBERG 之间的合作… 我最喜欢 KAMINSKI 拍的 THE DIVING BELL AND THE BUTTERFLY。你见过吗？
MJW: No, I haven’t.
SL: It’s my recommendation to you after this interview. It’s a story about a guy that has a stroke. He was the editor of Vogue. It’s a true story and it was a low budget fringe Polish film which Janusz Kaminski shot in between shooting one of his big blockbusters with Spielberg for like no money. It’s a great example of how somebody could have all the world to play with and then ends up on this small film. It’s a great piece of visual storytelling. Watch it and then we can talk further about it but it’s just breath-taking in its style, its ingenuity, everything. So. Great admiration for him. Sławomir Idziak who shot Three Colors: Blue, Black Hawk Down. Mainly because of his work with Kieślowski. I would say Kieślowski as a director is a huge influence on me. When I was at college I watched pretty much solely French and Polish films. I fell in love with the idea that they had something that no other films had. At that time they were certainly very different from the Western style of film. Kieślowski’s films are generally very bleak but they’re usually very honest. Again, they’re about the human condition. They’re about this feeling about something. What you get from them is this… He tells this story about the club that we’re all in. The irony and the tragedy of life, the fact that you only realize you love somebody when you’ve lost them and all this kind of thing.
SL ：我建议你完成这访谈后就去看吧。电影是关于一个中风病人的故事。他是时尚编辑。这是一个真实的故事，是一个低成本的非主流波兰电影。KAMINSKI 在和 SPIELBERG 拍摄另一部大制作之间的空档里拍了这部几乎是零成本的电影。这是一个很好的例子：KAMINSKI 能去拍世界上所有大片，却选择去拍这部小小的片子。这片子用了很棒的视觉叙事。去看那部电影，然后我们可以进一步谈论它。它的风格、它的独创性都很强烈。所以我非常钦佩他。 SLAWOMIR IDZIAK也是其一，他为 THREE COLORS: BLUE 与 BLACK HAWK DOWN 掌镜。对我影响最大的主要是他与 KIESLOWSKI 合作的那些作品。我会说导演KIESLOWSKI 对我有巨大的影响力。当我在大学里，我几乎只看法国和波兰电影。我当时认为，他们有一些其他电影没有的东西。当时他们跟西方电影的确有很大不同。KIESLOWSKI 的电影一般都非常惨淡，但它们通常是很诚实的。它们探讨人类关系与条件。它们是注重一种感觉。你从他们那里得到的是一种… 他告诉一个有关我们都属于的一个俱乐部，就是人生的讽刺与悲剧，你在失去了一个人的时候才知道你爱那个人这类的故事。
You know when you go to the cinema with a friend and you see a really great film and you walk out and you don’t say a word to each other and then you think about it for the next five days. You think about it when you wake up in the morning — that’s a great film for me. It’s something that’s made you think, it’s moved you whereas you can go out and see another film and you could be talking about it for five minutes and you might have enjoyed it but it wasn’t a great piece of cinema.
当你和一个朋友看完一部很好的电影，从电影院出来的时候，你们不说一句话，接下来的五天里，你不断的思考着它。当你醒来的时候你会想着它 – 这是对我来说是杰出的电影，让你思考、感动。你也可以去看一部电影，然后谈论它五分钟，你可能挺享受这电影，但它并不是一部杰出的作品。
I can remember watching 21 Grams with my wife after we’d had our first daughter and I never told her what it was about. I cry very easily when I watch films. I get very emotional. We watched the film and that at the end of the night Rachel went to bed. She didn’t speak to me. She wouldn’t talk to me. Got up the next day, she still wouldn’t talk to me. She was really angry. Two days after we watched it, we had a row and she said she was very angry about the fact that I’d made her watch this film, that if she’d have known what it was about, she wouldn’t have watched it. She’s a mother— lots of reasons why she found it difficult to watch but what was interesting is that it really had an effect on her.
我还记得和妻子在有了大女儿后一起去看电影 21 GRAMS，看之前我没有告诉她电影的内容。我看电影很容易哭。我很容易投入感情。我们看完电影的那天晚上，RACHEL直接上了床睡觉。她没有跟我说话。她不肯跟我说话。第二天起来，她还是不肯跟我说话。她是真的生气了。两天后，我们吵架了，她说我让她看这部电影令她很生气，因为如果她知道电影的题材，她就不会看了。她是一个母亲，这部电影有很多原因让很难受，但重点在于这部电影真的对她有影响。
Over the next couple of days she then realized what that effect was and she dealt with it. And then we had a conversation where she was like “I really think that’s one of the best films I’ve seen in a long time. It’s moved me so much.” Those kinds of moments are the things that inspire me. Those moments that I go — (whoa) whether they’re uncomfortable or not, they’re real. They’re interesting. I think that’s one of the things that drives my passion to so what I do is that I love it when you can shoot something, you can capture that moment and then people get to see that. People get to enjoy that.
MJW: I’m thinking about a moment that’s haunted so many people. It’s the matchbox moment. Is it Repo Man or Pulp Fiction that have the moment when the light kind of shines in and it’s not ever explained. Are we ever going to hear what that’s about or is it there to make us go “ooh”-— clever!
MJW：我在想着困扰很多人的一幕，就是有关那个火柴盒。是 REPO MAN 还是 PULP FICTION来着，里面有同样的一幕，就是那个一闪而过的亮光，但电影并没有解释那是什么。我们会知道火柴盒里头有什么东西吗？还是说那一幕就是为了让我们惊叹的？
SL: I don’t actually know the answer and even if I did I wouldn’t be allowed to say it or anything. From a technical perspective it was a challenge, this matchbox opening. It was kind of inspired from that Pulp Fiction idea of you open the briefcase and you get this shiny— you don’t know what’s in there. Is it God, is it gold, what is it? I remember somebody telling me about Blade Runner. There’s a scene in Blade Runner when Deckard has been beaten up and he takes a drink from the glass and you see this little macro shot of blood dripping in the water and people had written about it for years, film school students have written about the meaning of the blood and the water— it’s about the fact that he was a Replicant— it’s like the idea of a baby and that. Ridley Scott was asked about 20 years after. Somebody plucked up the courage and said to him that shot, the shot with the blood in the glass what does it actually mean? And he said “it doesn’t mean anything. It was just a good shot.”
SL ：我其实不知道答案。即使我知道，我也不会被允许说出来。从技术角度来看，那个火柴盒的一幕是一个挑战。它的灵感来自 PULP FICTION ，其中一幕他们打开公事包，你看到亮光，可是你不知道里面有什么。是上帝？是黄金？是什么呢？我记得有人告诉我BLADE RUNNER 有一个场景，当 DECKER 已经被打得浑身是伤，他拿起一个玻璃杯喝了一口水，然后就是近镜头拍摄的鲜血滴落在水中。那个镜头成为经典。人们已经研究讨论了许多年，电影学院的学生写了一页页有关血液和水的涵义，探讨这一幕代表他是 REPLICANT 之类的想法。20年后，有人鼓起勇气问导演 RIDLEY SCOTT，对于那镜头，它实际上是什么意思？他说： “这并不意味着什么。这仅仅是一个好镜头。”
I think that’s the same thing with the matchbox. Sometimes the best things are when you don’t given an answer. If you tell the audience what it is then they know. The payoff is already there. If you leave people-— your imagination… It’s one of the reasons why I think the first Alien film is still the best sci-fi film ever made. Because very rarely do you see the monster. Same as with Jaws. The idea of not seeing something is much more powerful than… the idea of not knowing “well what does that mean? what was in the matchbox?”
我认为火柴盒也是一样。有时，最好的做法是不给观众答案。如果你告诉观众那是什么，他们就知道了，好奇心就得到了满足。如果你给观众留下想像空间……这是为什么我认为第一集 ALIEN 电影仍然是有史以来最好的科幻电影的原因之一。因为你很少看到怪物。JAWS 也是如此。看不到的东西总比看得见的更强大、更震撼。观众会一直思考着：这有什么含义？火柴盒里到底是什么？
MJW: That’s going to fuel people for two more years.
MJW: That and why did the plant move in the third episode. You did Sherlock and Middoth and Pemberley right after?
MJW：还有那移动的盆花。你拍了 SHERLOCK 和 MIDDOTH 之后，就立刻开拍 PEMBERLEY 了，对吗？
SL: I did Sherlock, episodes one and two, and I went straight into Pemberley which I did for twelve weeks and I had gone on holiday for two weeks and then I went on to Tractate.
SL：我拍了 SHERLOCK 第一、第二集，就直接开始 PEMBERLEY 的工作，那份工干了十二星期，然后我放两个星期假之后就开始拍 TRACTATE 了。
MJW: How long did you have to shoot Tractate?
SL: Nine days.
MJW: Ha! Wow. And Pemberley — phenomenal. To go from Sherlock to Pemberley— that’s a totally different mind space, right?
MJW：哈！哇。还有 PEMBERLEY – 非常让人赞叹。从拍 SHERLOCK 转到拍 PEMBERLEY， 你得完全改变心态，对不对？
SL: Very different mind space. This was a director that I’ve worked with a lot before, Daniel Percival who’s a very good friend of mine who’s probably my favorite director to work with. He’s an amazing guy. The big BBC period drama of the year. Both of us had never done a period drama before. We’d done things that were kind of period but not like big frocks and all that kind of thing. We talked a lot about what we liked and what we didn’t like about other things. There’s a show over here called Downton Abbey which is very popular— and in the States. From a technical perspective my problem with something like Downton is that it’s too bright. It’s always too airy and bright. When we discussed Pemberley we talked about trying to make it feel real but not real at the expense of it feeling dull. You can make a show like that and say we’re only going to do what would be real and you’d end up with something that would look quite drab like a kitchen sink drama. It’s a combination of wanting to make something look really rich and interesting but also for people to go “actually I believe that.”
SL ：非常不同的心态。这部片子的导演DANIEL PERCIVAL和我合作过多次。他是我非常好的朋友，也可能是我最喜欢合作的导演。他是一个了不起的家伙。PEMBERLEY 是今年 BBC 的大时代剧。我们俩都从来没有拍过时代剧。我们拍过一点类似时代剧的东西，但不是大家都穿着长礼袍那种。我们谈了很多我们喜欢什么、不喜欢什么。有一部电视剧DOWNTON ABBEY在这里和在美国都非常受欢迎。从技术角度来看，我总认为它太亮了。它总是太轻松明亮。当我们讨论 PEMBERLEY 时，我们谈到想要使它感到更真实，但不会因为过于追求真实感而让它变得沉闷。太专注于真实感会让故事变得很单调，像描述普通人生活的肥皂剧。我们想要拍得丰富有趣，但也要观众能够感到真实。
[For example] 98% of the candlelight scenes in Pemberley are just candle light [with no extra artificial lighting]. I was working with very fast lenses and shooting at high ISO with the Alexa so that we could actually capture that feeling of candle light. All the day stuff is… it’s kind of what I do anyway. I tend not to light on the set. I tend to on day interiors, like with Sherlock, I always tend to have big light sources off the set and bring them onto the set because that’s what the sun does. What happens in a normal room is you have light from a cloud moving being reflected which is soft and then direct light from the sun. So what I tend to do like on Sherlock I have two big lights up above the windows which create the soft light from the clouds and then I have the two very punchy lights which create the sun coming in. The truth is that where that building is on North Gower Street the sun would never hit that window. But that’s artistic license. That’s when you kind of go right, I’m going to be theatrical about it a little bit to make it work because it looked better. It looked more interesting like that, creates more shape and more depth.
[例如] PEMBERLEY中98%的烛光场景都只有烛光，没有额外的人工照明。我用非常快的镜头和高ISO感光度的 ALEXA 拍的，这样我们可以捕捉烛光的感觉。白天的场景是……这是我平常做的工作。我倾向于不在摄影棚内打灯，像 SHERLOCK，我比较喜欢决定光源的位置，然后自摄影棚外面让灯光涌进，因为阳光就是这样的。一个正常的房间光源里有阳光被云层反射进去的柔和的亮光，也有更为强裂的直射日光。因此，像拍 SHERLOCK 这样的剧集的时候，我有两个大灯照在窗户上方，模仿云层折射的柔和光线，又有两盏强力的灯模仿直射进来的阳光。老实说，以北高尔街那栋楼所面对的方向，太阳绝不会照到那个窗口。但这是艺术创作的自由。这时候你就要决定，我要使它更戏剧化一点，因为这样看起来会更好，更有趣，更多姿和有深度。
MJW: So I get the sense that 221B looks a bit different from season one to season three. Was that conscious or am I just seeing things? It seems lighter…
MJW：我觉得 221B 从第一季到第三季有些许改变。是有意识的变化还是我多疑了？现在似乎更亮…
SL: Yes, it’s different for lots of reasons. It’s different for me for one thing because the camera’s different.
MJW: I was going to ask about that because you used an Arri Alexa but you used a different camera for season one, right?
MJW：我正要问这一点，你用的是 ARRI ALEXA，可是第一季里，你用的是另一架摄影机，对吗？
SL: It was a Sony F35 on season one and then the Alexa on season two and three. The Alexa makes a difference but also to be honest a lot of it comes down to the director as well. A great example [of how a director’s shot choice impacts the look of a scene] is when [Sherlock and Mycroft are] playing Operation in The Empty Hearse. Jeremy [Lovering] wanted to do shots which would track right away across the windows all the time so when you do that you can’t have the lamp right outside the window so you end up basically changing your lighting due to the nature of the shots. What Paul [McGuigan] and I would do quite often on series one is we’d do a big wide which would allow you to create more of that sharp shape and then you’d be into close-ups. But we very rarely moved the wide shots. The wide shots were always static.
SL ：第一季我用 SONY F35，然后接下来两季换成了 ALEXA。 ALEXA 的质感有所不同，但老实说，有很多也要归结于导演的决定。导演的决定影响画面结构的一个好例子，是在THE EMPTY HEARSE 里SHERLOCK 和 MYCROFT 玩手术游戏那段。JEREMY LOVERING 想让镜头越过所有窗户，所以你不能把灯挂在窗外。你必须得改变照明手法。在第一季里PAUL MCGUIGAN 和我常做的是用广角镜头来允许我们创建更多的对比强烈的形状，然后进入特写。但是，我们很少用移动的广角镜头。广角镜头总是静态的。
It’s driven by lots of things also because Jeremy wanted things to look different. It’s a weird conversation because when I met Jeremy he was very much like “oh we know what’s gone before and we want to kind of change things” and I was of the opinion that I don’t think there was that much to change really. Certainly in terms of the studio because I think we got the studio right. I mean you can always develop stuff but I think in series one the studio looked pretty good. That has an effect on it. Also you very rarely do things the same twice. It’s like if you’re ever given the opportunity to go back and do something again you’re going to do it differently. Even if you thought you had the right idea in the first place the thing is you’ll probably end up doing it differently again just because that’s human nature. You’ll go “well why don’t I try this or why don’t I do that?” I’ve not really looked at the two (seasons) side-by-side in that respect. I think they do look different. I don’t think the episodes in series three have the contrast series one has. I’d say that’s probably down to the director. With series one Paul was up for going, for pushing it that little bit further.
[这改变] 有很多因素，也是因为 JEREMY 想要东西看起来不同。当我见到JEREMY时的话挺奇怪，他基本上就说：“哦，我们知道以前是什么样子，我们想要一点改变。”但我不认为真的有改变的必要，特别是摄影棚方面，因为我认为我们已经得到了最好的效果。我的意思是，你可以开发新的东西，但我认为在第一季里摄影棚看起来就挺不错。这算是一个影响。此外你也很少重复自己做的事情。如果你有机会回头重做，你一定会想用不同的方式。即使你认为你原本的想法就是对的，你还是很可能最终会再次选择不同的做法，因为这是人的本性。你会想说：“我为什么不试试这个？我为什么不这样做呢？ ” 我并没有将这两季并列比较。我觉得他们确实看起来不同。我不认为第三季有第一季那种强烈对比。我想说，大概是导演的原因。PAUL在第一季里头总是想要达到更多、更强烈的效果。
MJW: So what did it feel like to be a wedding photographer [Sherlock episode, The Sign of Three]?
SL: The wedding was actually-— we spent a week in that environment shooting that wedding.
SL：那婚礼其实 — 我们花了一个星期在那个地方拍摄那场婚礼。
MJW: For the schedule, that’s a lot.
SL: Yes. One of the four weeks was spent in that location shooting the wedding. And it was a bit like being at a wedding. It was great to begin with, then it got very boring and tedious and then we ended up with a night shoot at the end of it which I enjoyed enormously with the dance and Sherlock’s speech on the stage. It was a nice thing to do something different. I found the environment quite difficult because it kind of goes against my instincts— the yellow on the wall, all the windows. The director wanted it to look very bright and have this feel to it. That goes against what I would normally want to do because I like things to be darker and more contrasty. You have to admit to yourself that it’s a wedding and a wedding needs to feel like that so… We had a lot of fun with the time slice. That was a nice thing to do. It was a nice thing to play around with that you wouldn’t normally do. It takes a long time.
SL：是的。四周中的一周花在那个外景场地拍摄婚礼。那感觉真有点像参加一个婚礼。开始的时候很棒，然后渐渐变得非常枯燥乏味，再然后是夜间戏。我最喜欢最后拍的场景，就是SHERLOCK在舞台上的致词。能做不同的事情挺好玩的。我感觉那个环境相当困难，因为它有点违背了我的直觉 — 黄色的墙壁，还有那么多窗户。这位导演想让它看起来非常明亮，有轻松的感觉。这跟我通常会想做的完全不同。因为我偏爱黑暗的、更多反差的画面。不过你得承认这是一个婚礼，婚礼需要有轻松欢愉的氛围，所以….. 我们拍那个时间停止的镜头拍的很开心，用你通常不会用的仪器挺好玩的。不过这需要很长的时间。
MJW: The rig looked really complicated.
SL: Yes. It takes about half a day to set it up. And you take four shots and that’s it.
MJW: How does it work?
SL: Basically it’s 50 stills cameras in an arc, all with the same lens on, all with the same setting. They either all take the photo at the same time or they can be tripped like at a 25th of a second or a 50th of a second after each other. [When the computer compiles them together] it’s as if they were single frames of the camera. What it feels like is that the camera is actually taking fifty frames on this track but it’s doing it much faster than what a real camera could do and also what it’s doing is it’s freezing the motion. It was originally done on The Matrix and lots of things like that. It was an idea that Colm [McCarthy] had you know— he kind of pushed for it and said he wanted to do it, thought it would be interesting and it was. It was a nice thing to play around with. Quite time consuming to set up and over very quickly.
SL：基本上它是在 50个相机排成一个弧形，所有相机都有相同的设置和相同的镜头。它们可以同时拍摄，也可以相差25分之一秒50分之一秒连续拍摄。 [当电脑把图片编译在一起后] 看起来他们就像拍摄出来的单帧，感觉上像摄影机在轨道上连续拍了50个画面，但比一个真正的摄影机更快，也有将动作冻结的效果。最初这手法用 THE MATRIX 和其他一些类似的电影制作。这是COLM MCCARTHY 的点子，他坚持要这样做，认为会是一个有趣的镜头。挺好玩的，虽然设置相当耗时，而且设置起来以后很快就拍完了。
The nice thing about Sherlock is that it’s one of those shows where there’s no such thing as a left field idea. It’s like in The Empty Hearse with John in the bonfire. We shot that in the studio. I wanted to shoot it on this thing I got called Lensbaby which is this very primitive shift and tilt lens you can manipulate yourself to get that claustrophobia and that idea of where are you. There’s very few shows you can do what we do on Sherlock on and get away with it. And one of the great things about Sherlock is you can really put out some left field ideas and people don’t look at you with blank faces. They look at you and smile.
拍SHERLOCK 的好处是，它允许你尝试任何异乎寻常的概念。这就像 JOHN 在 THE EMPTY HEARSE 里篝火那一幕。我们在摄影棚拍摄他的部分。我用一个叫做 LENSBABY 的东西拍摄，这是个非常原始的移位与倾斜镜头，你可以自己调节这个来拍出一种幽闭感，那种“我这是在哪儿”的感觉。SHERLOCK 以外，有极少数的剧集容许我们那么大胆尝试。拍 SHERLOCK的好处就是你真的可以提议一些大胆的念头，人们不会一脸茫然的看着你，而是会微笑考虑。
MJW: What’s the oddest idea you’ve had do you think?
SL: Oddest? On Sherlock or in general?
SL：最奇怪的想法？指 SHERLOCK 还是泛泛的说？
SL: I don’t know really… I can’t say anything comes to mind because none of them really seem odd to me.
In terms of ideas that are different to what you would normally do— I think the Sherlock stills thing and again on series three the two cameras together. It was one of those ideas I probably thought wouldn’t work in the beginning. I didn’t know whether it would work. But it’s actually… When I was doing Pemberley we went out with a meal with the actors and the guy that plays Alveston [James Norton] he’d found out that I’d shot Sherlock and he was a huge fan and he didn’t realize that I’d shot Sherlock and he was talking about the Sherlock vision and why it worked and I said I basically came up with that idea and and he was like really (laughing) and I was like yeah I did. Yeah, that was one of mine and Paul [McGuigan’s] ideas and he was really kind of taken aback by it and I’d never had that before.
若是以平常不大会用上的想法来说，我觉得 SHERLOCK 婚礼单帧的那一幕，还有第三季用两个摄像机拍的部分都很不同。这属于一开始让我觉得大概行不通的那种想法。但实际上……当我在拍 PEMBERLEY时，我们跟演员们一起吃饭，而扮演 ALVESTON 的家伙 （JAMES NORTON）发现我是 SHERLOCK 的摄影指导，他又是个超级粉丝。他那时不知道我拍了 SHERLOCK，他就谈起代表 SHERLOCK 视点的镜头好在哪里。我说那基本上是我的主意，他就说，啊是真的？（笑），我就说是啊，这是我和PAUL MCGUIGAN 的点子，他是真的吃了一惊，我从来没有看过这样的反应。
And it was weird because it had become an accepted thing, it had become a normal thing. Given the tight situation everybody could come up with it— with an idea as good as that. I come up with as many shit ideas as I do good ideas. As I’ve gotten older I’ve learned to filter out the shit ideas before I verbalize them. (laughs) It’s important to work in a regime where you don’t feel threatened to come up with an idea when you’re going to get shot down and criticized for it. There are some sets where you come up with an idea and people snigger and you’re not going to come up with an idea again because you’re too intimidated. I think it’s important not to be intimidated and to feel that there’s no such thing as a bad idea. There shouldn’t be, you know.
而这件事很奇怪，因为它已经成为一个被广泛接受的东西，已经成为一件正常不过的事。在那种紧张情况下谁都可能想出一样好的点子 。我有好多的烂点子也有很多好点子。有了经验后，我学会过滤掉烂点子而不是把它们说出来丢脸。 （笑）一个欢迎新概念、欢迎创意的工作环境很重要。你不希望出了一个主意而被别人嘲笑，因为你就不会想再出主意了。有一些剧组会嘲笑你的主意，你就不会再去想点子了，因为大家都害怕被嘲笑。我认为最重要的是不要被吓倒，要相信没有坏主意这种东西。本来就不应该有坏点子这回事。
MJW: Incredible stuff. I don’t want to take up too much of your time but I have one last question that I would like to ask-— this is one of those imagination ones. If you could have worked on any film in the past or with any director who would it be?
MJW：真的令人难以置信。我不想占用你太多的时间，但我想问你一个最后的问题 — 这是个天马行空的问题。有机会的话，在所有被拍出来的电影里，你会希望自己拍了哪一部，或者是和哪位导演合作》
SL: Does it have to be the same film and the same director?
MJW: Nope. Not at all.
SL: Ok. Director would be Kieślowski without a doubt. Film? I’d probably say something like Lawrence of Arabia. Just because it’s I think it’s rare in cinema. There are few films like that.
SL：唔，导演毫无疑问是 KIESLOWSKI。电影？我可能会说，像 LAWRENCE OF ARABIA类的电影。就是因为我觉得它很少见。有很少片子像它一样。
MJW: I think it’s incredible.
SL: In terms of their performances, just everything about it it’s amazing you know. If I were going to choose a film it would probably be Lawrence of Arabia.
SL：在他们的表演而言，关于它的一切都是惊人的。如果我要选择一个电影那应该是 LAWRENCE OF ARABIA。
If I think in terms of somebody my whole idea of my work is based on it would be very difficult for me to work with [Kieślowski], well he’s dead now obviously but I think I would have been… there’s very few people I’m in awe of or starstruck by but I think Kieślowski would be one of those people. It’s quite interesting the films that have stood the test of time. There are lots of good films out there. There are very few films that you watch now that you can still say are as amazing as they were back then. But to those people who are part of those films it must be an amazing experience to be part of that.
I feel partly like that about Sherlock because the amount of times it gets talked about in conversation… it’s the kinds of things I appreciate like you said of Pemberley. It’s very easy for people to consider that you only just do one thing. You may even do that thing very well but it’s actually nice for people to realize that you can do more than one thing. That’s what happened right after Pemberley and Sherlock went out. When all three (including The Tractate Middoth) went out at Christmas. I had lots of unsolicited emails from people saying how much they loved them but what was interesting was when they talked about the contrast between Pemberley and Sherlock. Saying how interesting it was to see how differently I did that. It’s a huge compliment because that’s what I try and do. I don’t try and do the same thing all the time otherwise life would be rather boring.
我对 SHERLOCK 有一点这种感觉，因为每次聊天都会谈到。就像我很欣赏你对 PEMBERLEY 的评论。人们很容易认为你只做一件事。你可以真的很擅长那件事，但你的其他成就得到赏识是一种很好的感觉。这就是 PEMBERLEY和 SHERLOCK 播映后所发生的事。当所有三个片子（包括 THE TRACTATE MIDDOTH）在圣诞节播映后，有很多人自发给我发电子邮件，告诉我他们有多喜欢这些作品。但我觉得最有趣的是他们会谈到 PEMBERLEY和 SHERLOCK 之间的反差，谈到看我使用不同的手法很有意思。这是很大的恭维，因为这是我想努力做的事情。我不想一成不变的做下去，那样生活会很无聊。
Steve Lawes is a UK based Director of Photography whose credits include: Sherlock (BBC); Death Comes to Pemberley (BBC); The Street (BBC); Strike Back (HBO) and the feature film Skellig. For his work on Sherlock Steve received a BAFTA Cymru Award and a RTS Craft nomination.
STEVE LAWES 是主要在英国活动的摄影指导，曾参与了多部剧作的拍摄，包括：SHERLOCK（BBC）、DEATH COMES TO PEMBERLEY（BBC）、THE STREET（BBC）、STRIKE BACK （HBO）、 与电影SKELLIG。他因为 SHERLOCK 而获得 BAFTA CYMRU 奖项，以及提名RTS CRAFT 奖项。
Mary Jo Watts (mid0nz) is a 43-year-old, American BBC Sherlock fangirl. A blogger with an academic background in media studies and film theory, MJ writes meta-analyses about Sherlock’s visuals, soundtrack, props and set dressings.
MARY JO WATTS （MID0NZ）是一位43岁美国籍 BBC SHERLOCK 粉丝博主，拥有媒体研究学和电影研究学的背景。MJ 发表了众多对 SHERLOCK 的视觉效果，配乐，道具和场景配置进行分析的博文。
Steve Lawes is a freelance cinematographer. The opinions he expresses above are his and do not reflect those of the BBC or Hartswood Films.
STEVE LAWES 是自由电影摄影师。他在此表达的看法纯属他本人的意见，并不反映 BBC 或HARTSWOOD FILMS 的观点。
TRANSLATED BY: ADRIENNE KENT AND THE SCIENCE OF ARTICULATION